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发表评论
作者:
用户名: 密码: 您还不是博客/论坛用户?现在就注册!
     
评论:
错误时间地点敌人条件୸
   

image.png

    这句名言自1951年5月15日问世迄今已有67年之久,刚刚偶然查阅

三年前丌维名博幼河两篇相关博文,分别两次引述上述名句,感觉有点

意思。转帖这两次述评之前,不妨先看看顺手找到其它媒体网站上的

文章怎厶说:

image.png

    版面截图 字迹太小、模糊、不清晰,关键这句复制下来再看:


朝鲜战争也成为美国人挥之不去的阴影, 美国五星上将布莱德利这 Yang

评价这一场战争:  我们在错误的时间,  错误的地点,  与错误的敌人打的

一场错误的战争。 


    这一结论性质的说法,流传了长达60多年之久,如此渗入人心,

以至于扭都扭不过来。


  你看,美国五星上将为什厶会这厶讲呢? 这里不乏细致讲解剖析呢:


image.png

image.png

  回来看幼河2015年8月19日博文第一次是这Yang引述名句的:


image.png


image.png


image.png

  文章下面作者 runner 留言, 源自唾手可得的维基百科:

image.png"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the 

wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 

15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to 

the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by 

General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. forces in 

Korea before being relieved of command by President Harry Truman 

on April 11, 1951.


Repeat:  四错名句的虚Q条件状语,是在说 倘若把朝鲜境内正在进行的

               战争扩大到中国国土上去的话,那将是 “在错误的时间、错误的

               地点,同错误的敌人打的一场错误的战争 ”


to the idea of extending the Korean War into China

to the idea of extending the Korean War into China

to the idea of extending the Korean War into China


   不信,请看接下来看官 qhr 引述的上下全文:


I am under no illusion that our present strategy of using means short of 

total war to achieve our ends and oppose communism is a guarantee that 

a world war will not be thrust upon us. But a policy of patience and 

determination without provoking a world war, while we improve our 

military power, is one which we believe we must continue to follow….


Under present circumstances, we have recommended against enlarging 

the war from Korea to also include Red China. The course of action often 

described as a limited war with Red China would increase the risk we 

are taking by engaging too much of our power in an area that is not the 

critical strategic prize.


Red China is not the powerful nation seeking to dominate the world. 

Frankly, in the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, this strategy would 

involve us in the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and 

with the wrong enemy.


— From testimony before the Senate Committees on Armed Services 

and Foreign Relations, May 15, 1951.—Military Situation in the Far 

East, hearings, 82d Congress, 1st session, part 2, p. 732 (1951).


布莱德利上述三段证词,绝不是指美国出兵朝鲜本身,而是另有所指。

在美国出兵朝鲜,打得比较顺利,直抵鸭绿江边时,以麦克阿瑟为代表

的少数军人主张轰炸中国东北,以切断志愿军的供应线,并摧毁新中国

东北的重要工业基地。根麦克阿瑟的想法,这岸@来,中国的工业化

就要推迟许多年,而且将成为苏联的沉重包袱。而以杜鲁门为首的美国

当政者的主流派坚角对把战争扩大到中国领土,由于麦克阿瑟擅自发表

与美国政府政策不同的言论(威胁可能打击中国本土),杜鲁门于1951年

4月解除了他远东地区“盟军总司令”之职。此事在美国国内引起轩然

大波,麦克阿瑟回国时受到英雄凯旋般的群众欢迎。以共和党人为主的

反对派大肆攻击杜鲁门政府,并在国会提出质询。5月间由参议院军事

委员会和对外关系委员会联合举行了一系列听证会,总题目为“远东的

军事形势”,全面审议美国的远东政策。布莱德利在5月15日的听证会

上的证词中阐述了反对将朝鲜战争扩大到中国的理由,大意谓:美国

出兵朝鲜是以最小的力量抵制苏联全球扩张的一个方面,如果战事扩大

到中国,将使美国大量军力,特别是海空军力量陷进去,这将正中苏联

下怀,它可以乘机控制整个欧亚大陆,并由此控制全世界。因此,正确

的做法是把朝鲜战争限制在朝鲜境内。他还说了这岸@段话:


  “红色中国不是一个谋求统治全世界的Qiang大国家,坦率地说,

根Ju参谋长联席会议的意见,这个战略 ( 按:指麦克阿瑟把战争扩大到

中国战略 ) 将会把我们卷入一场在错误的时间、错误的地点,同错误

敌人打的错误的战争”。


  他用的语法是虚Q式:“将会”,很清楚,“错误的战争”Jue不是

指已经进行的在朝鲜的战争,而是“如果”扩大到中国的战争。另外,

布莱德利还说过,即便要同中国打一仗,也只能在南边而不能在北边,

因为那里离苏联太近,苏联不可能坐视不管。事实上, 论在当时,

还是以后,美国朝野都没有否定过在当时的形势下美国出兵朝鲜的必要性

(不像对越南战争有许多反思,认为是错误的意见占上风)。在我国流传

甚 的布莱德利的这几句话往往被诠释为美国自认为Jue策失误,有后悔

之意,这是一厢情愿的误解,不符合事实。


  美国人在总结经验教训中的普遍共识是:首先是艾奇逊于1950年1月

12日那篇著名的讲话中关于美国在西太平洋的防线没有包括朝鲜半岛,

给金日成造成错觉,以为美国可以放弃南朝鲜;后来,美国又不顾李承晚

的反对,开始从南朝鲜撤军,更加重了这一印象,从而Bang助了金日成

发动进攻的角腄A这才是美国人自己检讨之点。


  不论如何,有一点是肯定的,就是当时美苏两家都力图避免直接

}突,同时也角ㄓ许对方跨越已经划定的势力范围的界线,这是双方

的战略底线。( 作者: 资中筠 )


作者资中筠的结论为: 美国从未认为出兵朝鲜是错误贝w !


http://blog.renren.com/share/145556335/5436086988


   六天过后,幼河博主原创撰写相关的第二篇文章:

image.png

image.png

image.png


 Repeat :


我感觉,断章取Yi地引证是个众人公认的严重问题。比如布雷德利

那句话“在错误的时间、错误的地点,同错误的对手打一场错误的

战争”。对于朝鲜战争,出于不同的政治观点,人们会有不同的看法。

而人们在争论时往往引经典。布雷德利并没有直截了当地讲“我们

绝对打得过刚刚建国的中国军队”,当然他说“红色中国不是一个寻求

统治世界的L大国家”隐含了对中国的看法;那就是中国当时的能力

作为世界L国还差得太远。说美国“在错误的时间、错误的地点,同

错误的对手打一场错误的战争” 非是说美国不该在朝鲜和中国人打仗。

很明显,冷战时期美国的战略重点在欧洲。


    太令幼河博主劳神费时费心了。别说原创码字码出来这大段大段

篇章的辛苦劳烦,旁观者呢看Zhe都累。


Suffice to say, 上面一句话里,更换一个词,就可以结账收工了:


         “  非是说美国不该在朝鲜和中国人打仗

         “  非是说美国不该在中国和中国人打仗 ”


打住。


image.png

image.png


image.png


What he said, on May 15, 1951, at the Senate hearings 

on President Truman's firing of General MacArthur, 

was, ''Enlargement of the war in Korea to include Red 

China ...'' - which MacArthur was willing to risk - 

''would involve us in the wrong war, at the wrong place, 

at the wrong time and with the wrong enemy.''


https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/07/opinion/l-what-gen-bradley-said-about-korea-185411.html


作者:enya 2         留言时间:2015-08-21 15:43:30

Han-feng, Well said !


作者:han_feng 留言时间:2015-08-21 12:18:52


How Americans think of Korea war? To answer this, see why Hollywood does not make any movie about this damned War !


How Americans think of Korea war? To answer this, see why Hollywood does not make any movie about this damned War !


How Americans think of Korea war? To answer this, see why Hollywood does not make any movie about this damned War !


List  of  Korean  War  Films

United States[edit]



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