暢銷作家：

總統先生，難得閣下接受我這個“大左膠”的專訪，何幸之有！

我沒有閣下的大咀巴，卻有

《紐約×報》去年度十大最暢銷書榜首作者的美名。

這回想寫當今強人……

川（一眼掃過）：

Congratulations. Your book sells like President Xi's in China.

Wait.

You sit like a Beijing bureaucrat.

And you breathe like someone who's always being recorded.

作家（一笑）：

閣下風趣。言歸正傳——

閣下十年間大起大落、大落大起，不讓當年的小平同志。

這……

川（大笑）：

Let me tell you why.

First lesson: 

if people call you names, you're doing something right.

Second lesson: 

if they stop calling you anything, you're finished.

作家：

您是說，爭議本身就是權力？

川：

Controversy is oxygen.

Silence is suffocation.

They tried silence on me once.

Didn't work.

作家（點頭）：

白宮——您確實得而復失，又失而復得。很多人以為這是偶然。

川：

I prefer White House to White Palace.

Speaking of which—nothing about it was accidental.

I “lost” because I spoke too clearly.

I won back because they spoke too falsely.

作家：

也就是說，您不是靠“承諾”，而是靠“揭穿”。

川：

Exactly.

People don't believe promises anymore.

They believe exposure.

I expose the game—conveniently when I'm a moving part of it.

I move in. I move out. And I move on,

leaving those damned fools biting the dust behind me.

作家（略一停頓）：

那如果我說——另一位強人，靠的是“說好故事”，您怎麼看？

川（眯眼）：

Ah.

Now you're talking about him.

He's a good friend of mine, you know.

作家：

我只是做個學術比較。

川：

He builds strength outward,

but keeps fragility inside.

I do the opposite.

I put chaos on the surface

so that stability can hide underneath.

作家：

“他”外強中乾，對嗎？

川：

Careful.

That phrase travels fast back

to your boss. 

Your upcoming book may not sell so well. 

作家（笑）：

……

川：

Look—

he wants to be feared.

I want to be unavoidable.

Fear decays.

Attention multiplies.

I enjoy catching global attention.

That's why you begged so nicely to interview me.

You're very good at begging.

No wonder you're Beijing's favorite American author.

作家：

閣下真會開玩笑。言歸正傳——

大大相信秩序。秩序弄不好，世界遭殃。

川：

Order is great—

until you turn everyone into a zombie.

He wants order without heartfelt applause.

I want heartfelt applause even without order.

作家：

所以閣下接受我這個“訪客”，

是因為並不怕被看穿、被指斥是民粹霸？

川：

A "populist hegemon" ——

What an honor!

Yes, of course, 

I thrive on being seen through.

Your boss survives by not being questioned.

I pity him.

作家：

那您不擔心——再度成為眾矢之的？

川：

Guess what?

All those late-night shows make money off my split images.

I'm business-minded enough to welcome caricature.

My caricature sells.

I feel great.

作家：

叫座就是叫好。

這正是“川霸”的核心？

川：

You're not there yet.

The core is this:

I "lose" loudly.

I win loudly.

Your boss wins quietly—

and fears losing quietly.

Again, I pity him. 

作家（低聲）：

本人的老闆是本人。

（換來川霸三聲鼓掌。）

川：

You're a puppet who's also a puppet master?

Marvelous.

Seriously—your boss is hitting 

the Great Wall he built himself,

if you know what I mean. 

作家：

閣下呢？

川：

Well, I was “fired” by voters once.

That made me real.

I roared back to the White House.

That made me even more real.

Your boss?

He's never been fired.

That makes him fragile.

作家：

脆弱？當今強人，舍大大其誰？

川：

There's something called an Achilles' heel.

Don't get me wrong—I respect ambition.

I just doubt insulation.

An insulated strongman is a joke.

A bad joke.

作家：

最後一個問題。

若果大大問：“如何永遠贏？”

閣下的回應是——

川（站起身）：

I'd tell him this:

don't try to win forever.

Try to lose—and survive.

That's where real power lives.

Call me egocentric all you want,

but America projects its power on me,

not the other way around.

作家：

總統先生不吝接受專訪，萬分感謝——

川（揮手）：

Don't mention it.

The truth always sells better

when you call it fiction.

Get that?

作者：紉秋蘭