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迷失于祖国和政权之间--闲谈小胡同学来访的风波 2011-02-05 15:37:36


中共大头目小胡同学在金盘洗手,退隐归山之前,来美国搞一场热闹的国事访问,作为收山之作。意图给自己八年统治锦上添花。主人奥八懂得中国客人的脸面要紧,紧密配合,给足小胡八面玲珑风光。当然,这风光也是小胡同学拿出五百亿美元作散花童子换来的。中国人不是有句俗话嘛,便宜没好货,好货不便宜。老秃进城满街打滚儿,没人管。小胡进城前呼后拥的,二个朝廷忙翻了天。不用问,老秃荷包扁的,小胡腰包鼓的。老秃只能代表自己和一小群秃迷(如果有的话,那老秃就乐糊涂了),真正的“寡人‘一个啊。小胡作为中共大头目,自然万人哄捧,有的是人抢着拍马屁的。老美们再讲民主自由,见到白花花的银子还是先不吭声了,热钱到手再说。这也没什么奇怪的。国际政治,如同人际关系,现实利益优先。用毛爷时代常说的社会主义术语说,就是各取所需,各尽所能。最后靠各自实力妥协。吃亏占便宜自己清楚。


说起中共头目们来美国互动这种红白喜事,就不能不说说海外华侨们迎来送往的甜酸苦辣。早年中共大头目来美国,中共使领馆们也会动员海外华侨和学生们出来挥舞国旗,高呼热烈欢迎等标准口号。不过,二十年前,中共政权还穷点,拿不出钱来雇佣华侨们出来塞满大街,给大头目们造成自己多么有民心的印象。现在,中共政权什么都缺,唯独不缺钱。加上现在人们对于钱也比较敏感点了,所以,不知从哪年开始,只要参加亲共社团欢迎活动的,就会领到点补助,也就是辛苦钱。这次小胡来访,马里兰州大的学生会通知参加者有五十元补助,被人贴在网上。以此类推,小胡来到芝加哥,也有大约几百人在呼喊,估计也是领了饭钱厕所手纸钱才去的。所以,现在我们知道,小胡同学来访,这么多人出来满脸笑容高呼欢迎,原来是基本是领中共补贴的雇佣兵啊。


这倒给我点启发了。以后我要是发点小财,从拉斯维加斯回亚特兰大,我也先雇点老墨,老黑,老白,老黄,美女,同性恋等各种群众,在机场高举标语牌:欢迎老秃回到祖国,老秃是亚特兰大的太阳,老秃大将神勇无敌,带领我们从胜利走向胜利。那感觉,肯定让我当场晕在机场里了。除去把从赌场里赢来的钱送出去,还会激动地掏出一沓子‘林肯,“使劲儿往欢迎群众手里塞。能让我找到这么好的感觉,激动一会儿,这钱花的值啊。林肯,您知道,那是一美元钞票的头像。至于上面有格朗特的钞票,就不可能了。那成本我就负担不起了,只能中共财大气粗出得起。


谈起花钱雇欢迎人群这事儿,要我是小胡,我肯定把出这个骚主意的家伙咔嚓掉。当然,不是把他的脑袋咔嚓了。我还不像邓小平六四杀人那样恶毒嘛。我这人,最讨厌官方仪式俗套。尤其是官方组织的群众队伍。七十年代左右,作为生活在毛爷脚下的胡同串子,我经常参加北京市学生队伍到机场欢迎来访的外国元首。那客人一出飞机,奏完国歌,周相或者红朝高官就陪着人家来到群众队伍前面。这个时候我们就要使劲笑,把嘴能咧多大就咧多大,要在原地蹦高,但不许上前搂人家。让外国人以为我真的见到他高兴的要死要活了。其实,这根本是假的。那是党组织给俺分配的工作,俺就是给人蹦跳造气氛的伙计,红军战士甲。其实,我心里说了,我管你是谁啊,反正大会堂的国宴没我的份儿。蹦完了,坐车回家,可以逃一天学嘛。


中共官员们心里自然明白这套把戏。小胡也不傻。可是,走在大街上,满街人群朝你媚笑呼喊,让你感觉太好了。你自然也喜笑颜开,赶紧挥手慈祥地向激动的群众打招呼。三挥二挥就忘了人家是群众演员,奉命表演,把假的当成真的了。所以,我们在电视上,常看到老江小胡满脸笑容地挥手,高喊,华侨们好。华侨们辛苦了。那是二位领导一时忘了,把假戏真做。也不容易嘛。


俺们秃城有个名叫美华协会之类的半红半白的海外爱国群众组织。那当地头目,是个老太太,名叫李秀兰。别看老太太的名字土得掉渣,让人以为从大寨铁姑娘队出来的,老太太根本不是大陆出来的,而是南洋华侨之类的。自打来到美国,老太太就拥党爱国多少年,专门苦心经营和中共的关系。每次中共小头们来秃城活动,李老太太准保出面宴请,吃喝一通,咔嚓一番。人说,有钱能使鬼推磨,这李老太太还真把中共弄的团团转,多次邀请老太太去中国参加各种仪式,宴会。俨然一个海外华侨党员似的。这次,小胡同学来访问,李老太太居然捞到一张邀请,跟小胡同学一张桌子上吃饭,一个屋里照相。李老太太回到亚特兰大,立刻就把和小胡的合影放在网上和亚特兰大华侨们分享见到小胡的天大喜讯。老太太这次真是捞足了面子啊。


不过,看在俺们秃城老华侨眼里,这李老太太也可以算是厚颜无耻的了。小胡刚把一个老实巴交不过说了真话的中国知识分子刘晓波以莫须有的罪名关进囚房,公然践踏中国人民的言论自由和人身安全的基本权利。中共的宪法本来就像擦屁股纸,随时拿来用用。不用时放在柜子里。这下,小胡同学和手下的凶恶鹰犬无中生有,捏造罪名,还用中共宪法做牌子,更让人对中共宪法不信任了。小胡此举受到了全世界各国各界的同声谴责。而李老太太居然装傻,装作什么也没发生,照样跑到花生屯朝拜小胡。以和一个独夫,独裁政权头目,合影为荣。虽然身居北美多年,受到西方自由民主价值观熏陶,李老太太可真是昧着良心跟独夫民贼成了一丘之貉。看来,这老太太是个风流人物,只要自己风光,哪管基本人权,那在乎对方的恶名。人言,近朱者赤,近墨者黑。李老太太跟着中共转悠,该红的红,该黑的黑。能学好吗?可悲乎,可耻乎?我看兼而有之。有时候,我就纳闷儿,为什么老太太居住在北美多年,怎么一点基本民主素养也没有?不分好歹,不分荣耻,只要能跟中共大头目合影风光就什么也不管了?看来,老太太在美多年还是喜欢广东的凤爪,牛百页,没吃惯老美的汉堡薯条,其”政治”口味“依然未变呐。老太太甘心躬身曲膝于一个独裁政权,要是在中国大陆,不会让我多惊讶。可这人在北美,上赶着献媚于中共,让我很惊讶。看来,做奴才,在哪里也是做嘛。卖身求荣,我不敢这么说李老太太。可是事实如此,实在让我找不出其他和谐词汇形容那李老太太。这里的卖身,大家也知道,指的是出卖灵魂更贴切一些。


也许李太太以为中共政权就是祖国,也许李太太以为中共就是中国。但愿她这么认为。因为,那正好说明,李老太太认识有问题。对于在美国还接着吃凤爪的老华侨们,我们不能要求太高。用毛爷教育党徒们的话说,就是允许人家具有朴素的阶级感情,对党和政府热爱就是对中国热爱了。这样,李老太太最多就是个糊涂问题。跟一个糊涂蛋不用认真。


可怕的是,李老太太心里明白中共的腐败专制罪恶本质,只是为了满足自己的虚荣心,为了达到挤进社会高层的目的而甘心情愿地选择性地忘记中共的各种罪恶,尤其像六四屠杀的罪恶,昧着良心跟魔鬼周旋,自己也成了为虎作伥,狼狈为奸的一员。用我们基督团契里的指导员的话说,就是把灵魂卖给了撒旦。我最近常在亚特兰大华人教堂北堂跟马二师傅做礼拜。每次总是祈祷神能看在党国的份儿上伸出手来拉李老太太一把。唠叨一年了,似乎没有任何效果。我正想跟我们神父大人商量一下,看看能不能加大祈祷剂量和力度,早日让神帮助李老太太远离魔鬼呐。


观察李老太太在亚城活动多年,只要有中共高层官员来亚城,李老太太就一定会出面招待。用中共的词汇说,李老太是拥护社会主义祖国的爱国华侨。不过,我也不想否认李老太太也帮助过学生。功过不能混淆嘛。


如果,李老太太敢站出来谴责中共制造的六四屠杀和囚禁独立知识分子刘晓波,那么,我立刻给老太太喝彩。那叫有良知,有道德正义感。那才叫真正的爱国情操。自然,有勇气还谈不上。在美国,你骂死中共,也没人理你,更没有人身危险。可惜,我敢打赌,李老太太就没有这点良知正义感。她不会站出来。因为,她怕得罪中共,失宠于中共。那样,她就没有任何花环可戴了。其实,李老太太这次挣来的花环,不过是皇帝的新衣。其内心的浮荣媚共完全暴露在亚城华侨社区面前。



话到此处,就有一个问题不得不说清楚。爱国到底是爱谁?大多数从中国大陆出来的海外华侨们,全从小受中共红色教育,中共就是中国,中共政权就是祖国。所以,爱国,自然就拥护共产党,拥护中共政权体制。道理倒也很简单。毕竟人家于内有一套统治体制,于外代表中国。中共也乐于告诉海外华侨们,它就是中国的合法政府。其实,在我看来,中共统治中国是个事实,无法否认。但是,中国并没有代表中国人民的合法法统。它的政权是基于暴力统治的理念,也是典型的少数人统治多数人的政权。据说,那个清华马列主义博士习近平要做小胡同学的接班人了。这就是典型的公权私授,典型的宫廷政治。老爷子说你行,你就行。御旨指定你,你就是合法的王储了。这中共就是一个红色的王朝嘛。奥八当选美国总统,那是你我一张张选票投进去算出来的。小习同学当国家主席,那是中共高层几个人钦点的。我们平头百姓,只有站着吆喝山呼万岁的份儿,其他的,自然只有老实闭嘴被当成傻子的份儿了。大概是20年前吧,国民党老支书连战说过,中共不是中国。这句话,我记着了。现在,我仍然这么说。


在我心里,中国是指的那一片辽阔的山河和在那里生生不息的父老同胞们,那灿烂的丰富文化。中共虽然在统治那片土地和其上的人民,但是,中共只是历史的一个红色魔影。总有一天,那片土地上会有一个民选民有民享的政府,真正代表中国,为中国人民服务,是人民的政府。现在,中共根本不是中国人的政府,虽然它依靠暴力统治者中国那片土地。现在,中共开国大头目们的子孙们占据了中共政权的高层,享受着封建世袭的余荫,这更说明中共封建独裁的特点。要是人民真正有权利的话,谁会乐意看到一个只会要嘴皮子毫无军事素质的刘源上将晃来晃去啊?如果不是他爸是被毛爷赐死的刘少奇的话,他怎么会能升到目前的地位呢?没有任何重要军事素养的上将,那是笑话啊。当然,他老子和毛爷一起打江山,儿子坐江山也“理所当然”嘛。


我的看法是,认同中国,热爱中华文化和那片辽阔的河山,但是在心里同中共拉开距离,更不能认同中共政权。否侧,那就是认贼做父了。六四屠杀后,我就不再挂中共红旗了,也不再同中共官员来往。直到有一天,六四烈士的英灵在天安门广场上安息,六四屠杀的凶手被挂上历史审判台,我才能考虑如何认同中国的问题。我们不能认同一个屠杀同胞的政权,不能认同一个独裁,公权私授的政权。跟它来往,就是出卖了人的尊严和道德。这样,我们只能游走于祖国和政权这二个概念之间,认同文化,不认同意识形态。爱国,是文化上的。爱党可是具体的行动。那李老太太就是典型的爱党人士,可能自以为爱国呢。

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作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-25 08:50:10
滚滚长江东逝水,浪花淘尽英雄。
是非成败转头空。
青山依旧在,几度夕阳红。
白发渔樵江渚上,惯看秋月春风。
一壶浊酒喜相逢。
古今多少事,都付笑谈中。
回复 | 0
作者:兰冠云 留言时间:2011-02-08 20:42:58
博主好文!正派!正义!有原则!
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-08 09:13:48
健健康康,快快乐乐,事业有成,家庭和睦?靠什么? 靠放下
仇恨知足长乐使脑子用在正确的方向。不靠为他人的政治目的
而宁愿做一只狗。中国人在美国“搞”中国政治绝无前途。如
果真有脑子玩政治,不妨试试美国政治。

我人在美国作为美国公民所以为美国工作,但不当走狗。宁当
苦力也不会当走狗。因为当走狗永远不可能独立。挣到一份光,
赚下一份业,靠的是信心,执着,与长时间的知识积累。水到
渠自成。当然也有一点机遇。如果我在美国投机“中国的”政
治,胜算恐怕只能为零。当然有政治“脑子”的人投机政治,
前途或许不可限量?所以不妨试试美国政治后,再来“讲道
讲道”。
回复 | 0
作者:seewhy9 留言时间:2011-02-07 15:35:16
Li15:

不存在一定要回或不回的问题,不过是随便交流。

不管如何,祝你健健康康,快快乐乐,事业有成,家庭和睦。

至于黑格尔的那句话,被世人误解得太多太普遍。借网上的一篇介绍,转贴在下,有兴趣的可以参考:

存在就是合理? 时常听见这样一句话:“存在就是合理。”比如,当某种丑恶的社会现象暴露时,有些社会人士就会这样说。不可否认,此说法一定意义上相当深刻,因为它要求不要仅仅停留于就事论事式的表面分析,而要深入到现象背后的原因。然而,其消极之处也十分明显:它往往沦落为对丑恶现象的辩护。之所以出现这种情况,窃以为跟我们对“存在就是合理”理解的片面性有关。 第一、存在就是合理,当然有为现实辩护的一面,不过,它不是主要的;主要的是它革命、批判的一面。这点,恩格斯在《路德维希。费尔巴哈和德国古典哲学的终结》里早有揭示。他说,黑格尔的名言“凡是现实的就是合理的,凡是合理的就是现实的”,“这显然是将现存的一切神圣化,是在哲学上替专制制度、替警察国家、替王室司法、替书报检查制度祝福”。但是,这样想的,只是“近视的政府”与“同样近视的自由派”。“在黑格尔看来,凡是现存的决非无条件地也是现实的。在他看来,现实的属性仅仅属于那同时也是必然的东西”,“这样一来,黑格尔的这个命题,由于黑格尔的辩证法本身,就转化为自己的反面:凡在人类历史领域中是现实的,随着时间的推移,都会成为不合理的”。举个例子,“罗马共和国是现实的,但是,把它排斥掉的罗马帝国也是现实的”。换而言之,某种丑恶现象的存在是合理的,但是,将它消灭之后出现的美好现象更加合理。 第二、“存在就是合理”的成立是有条件的。“存在就是合理”其实是黑格尔名言“凡是现实的就是合理的,凡是合理的就是现实的”的通俗(一定意义上也是歪曲)表达。它的成立,以黑格尔的整个哲学体系为依据。黑格尔认为,宇宙的本原是绝对精神(理性),它自在的具备着一切,然后外化出自然界、人类社会、精神科学,最后在更高的层次上回归自身。因此,凡是在这个发展轨迹上的就是合理的(“合乎理性”的简略说法),也就是必然会出现的、是现实的。反过来讲也同样成立。 我们当然要承认黑格尔哲学的深刻之处,然而,其理论的虚构性、先验性也是不能否认的。在其整个哲学体系受到质疑的今天,其个别结论当然也还是可以成立的,不过,它们需要重新论证。毫不思索的拿来就用,虽然与“拿来主义”共享着“拿来”二字,实际上恰恰是缺乏脑子的表现,是违背“拿来主义”精神的。
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作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-07 15:03:09
Seewhy9,

你现在所提的问题大多超过了我能或愿意参与的范围,比如德国
日本等。你不愿想想黑格尔“存在就是合理" 的涵义。不过还是
到此为止。您好像还是忿忿不平,这超过了我能或愿意参与的范
围。

我只稍稍提一下土改。尽管我家恐怕只能算是受害者。但我父亲
从他叔叔的众多长工与雇员那里认识到大势所驱,选择了参加共
产党并且放弃几乎所有财产。 正确或者错误现在好像并不太重
要了,至少对我家而言。这个选择是我家终究没有招到重大打击
的根本原因。 您说是道德还是不道德 (我绝不再回了,因为超过
了我能或愿意参与的范围)? 您选择大势所驱还是认为共产党政府
很快会垮台,也超过了我能或愿意参与的范围。

Finally, my family is far away from Beijing even though
I visited Beijing more than 4 times. 我绝不再回了,因为
超过了我能或愿意参与的范围。您自己保重。
回复 | 0
作者:seewhy9 留言时间:2011-02-07 13:36:00
Li15:

好像有许多要说,可是这网络贴不易仔细斟酌,不如像朋友聊天似的,随便聊聊。还要谢谢秃主的宝地。

1.科学家,首先是个人,首先要学会认真做人,对吧?我绝对相信,你不可能认同替希特勒设计焚人炉的工程师或在东北在活人身上做细菌实验的日本军医是你的同类。为什么?很简单,他们虽然仅是做了“政府”要他们做的事,但是却违反了人的基本底线。到底谁应该负多大的责任呢?

2.你作为科学家,一定知道逻辑的重要性,严密定义的重要性。国家,政府,当政者与人民,祖国(homeland and motherland)有相当大的区别,不能相互随便替代。看政治问题,好像也应该基本区分对象的地位与责任,权利和义务。上帝的归上帝,撒旦的归撒旦。谁手上有无辜的人命,就该谁认罪。如果是受到上级乃至上级乃至上级的指示或命令,所有责任者都逃不掉该领的那份儿,不管他们自己承认不承认或者悔过不悔过。

3.你可能离北京不太远。不说太久以前的事,就说北京郊区的大兴县在文革中的事,我相信你应该听说过,不知道你有什么看法?有时候可以跳出自己家庭或家族的圈子,在更高的角度来看问题。

4.你应该知道当年段祺瑞为了他的部下射杀了几个学生,亲自去长跪不起,之后终身茹素,以示忏悔。无论对他一生的看法有多大的不同,仅这一点,已合佛心。难道对20世纪末号称代表人民及共和国的党政者,我们可以用任何借口来原谅吗?对付手无寸铁的群众,需要坦克机枪吗?这和“自卫”连得上吗?

5.我最不齿的借口之一,就是collateral damage,就是以布希为代表的美国“政府”为杀死无数的阿富汗伊拉克平民(当然还有许多其他的例子)厚颜无耻的“解释”。用到中国,就是“要奋斗,就会有牺牲”,甚至为了一个“伟大的目标”,不妨牺牲一部分人的利益乃至生命。不是说要绝对反对牺牲,而是一定要看是不是符合大道人道。为了政治目的或利益,草菅人命是绝对错的。(我是尽量避免用绝对这个词的,有时候却似乎很难)。
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-07 07:25:12
seewhy9, thank you very much. I do not mean we should
forget what happened. I do think there is something
to do about, say, what happened on 6.4.89, and so on.
But, hatred would ruin our own life. By the way, I
helped that person by pretending on having found
nothing about his wife's background during "Cleaning
Jiaji Duiwu" after the cultural revolution without
using hatred toward what he did to my father with
the landlord issue (that person is also a family
to me, but not so close). He was shocked (I should
say) to thank me. I was a young assistant (they
tried to persuade me into communist) to a person
who was in charge. The person in charge did not
say anything either because I did not say anything
about the matter after we found something partially
because my father was above that person in charge.
That person I protected was very thankful to me
since then. My family was not hurt too much because
most people involved are also family members -only
not too close and my father had too many friends
at every level including one at the top level of
the province (retired). We treated "enemy"
as friends (most of them are indeed family members,
say 5 to 10 generations away -- I am not sure).

About 6.4, I forgot ONE point why I said a little
bit stronger on the beginning. I do not like some
guys talking about 6.4 for USA's sake or act as
somebody else's dog (I used dog there). Demonizing
Chinese government is not what I like. Criticizing
it, however harshly, is reasonable. I wrote in
another place that the most important issue is to
Jiushinengshi to figure out what to do to improve
in order to make China even better (I love my
birthland and I do not hate the government). Don't
you agree? I feel deeply sorry for anybody who has
suffered during 6.4 or anytime, but, AGAIN, hatred
would only ruin our own life. Walk out from the
hatred, being happy (not forgetting) makes your
life better. Being DanDing about what is going on
with Hu's visit. Life likes a drama; I am sorry
but killing is inside the drama. I feel terribly
bad even sometimes now when I watch some movie,
but I do not choose to hate. I am trying to help
as you said I should.
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-07 07:25:03
seewhy9, thank you very much. I do not mean we should
forget what happened. I do think there is something
to do about, say, what happened on 6.4.89, and so on.
But, hatred would ruin our own life. By the way, I
helped that person by pretending on having found
nothing about his wife's background during "Cleaning
Jiaji Duiwu" after the cultural revolution without
using hatred toward what he did to my father with
the landlord issue (that person is also a family
to me, but not so close). He was shocked (I should
say) to thank me. I was a young assistant (they
tried to persuade me into communist) to a person
who was in charge. The person in charge did not
say anything either because I did not say anything
about the matter after we found something partially
because my father was above that person in charge.
That person I protected was very thankful to me
since then. My family was not hurt too much because
most people involved are also family members -only
not too close and my father had too many friends
at every level including one at the top level of
the province (retired). We treated "enemy"
as friends (most of them are indeed family members,
say 5 to 10 generations away -- I am not sure).

About 6.4, I forgot ONE point why I said a little
bit stronger on the beginning. I do not like some
guys talking about 6.4 for USA's sake or act as
somebody else's dog (I used dog there). Demonizing
Chinese government is not what I like. Criticizing
it, however harshly, is reasonable. I wrote in
another place that the most important issue is to
Jiushinengshi to figure out what to do to improve
in order to make China even better (I love my
birthland and I do not hate the government). Don't
you agree? I feel deeply sorry for anybody who has
suffered during 6.4 or anytime, but, AGAIN, hatred
would only ruin our own life. Walk out from the
hatred, being happy (not forgetting) makes your
life better. Being DanDing about what is going on
with Hu's visit. Life likes a drama; I am sorry
but killing is inside the drama. I feel terribly
bad even sometimes now when I watch some movie,
but I do not choose to hate. I am trying to help
as you said I should.
回复 | 0
作者:seewhy9 留言时间:2011-02-06 23:22:16
再次谢谢Li15.

可能是对你第一次的文字理解不完全对意思,才有了后来的应对。我觉得还是积极正面的。

我也不敢自居君子,因为知道自己实在不够格。但是难得你如此坦率,我也略“暴露”一点自我:

1.我比你稍覥长数年;

2.快40来美;

3.所谓“忌恶如仇”是指大是大非原则性的问题有一定的独立思考,并非“有仇必报”。我与你一样,认为恨不是解决问题的办法,只是自己心中的负担和枷锁,一日解不开放不下,终身无安宁。

4.肮脏的政治权争不知造就了多少人间悲剧,包括许多家庭的分裂甚至互相杀戮。这只能更应该让我们共同努力(在有可能的时候)去哪怕尽一点点最微薄的努力,使这个世界变得更好一些,就像你自己也曾经帮助过人一样。但无论如何,这不能得出“如果我们在某些问题上无能为力,那就干脆忘了它吧”的结果。不要记恨,但是不能忘却,要把历史的真相尽量搞清楚,记录在史,以示后世我们的子子孙孙。

5.既然来美国移民,自当努力立足奋发。能力可能有大小,机遇可能有差异,但已站稳者不必低看后来者或尚不如己者,说不定有机会还可以帮老乡一把,你说对吗?
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 22:24:21
Seewhy9,

To answer all of your questions, I am more inclined
以直报怨 than 忌恶如仇. I do not like to hate. I can
not afford hating. I am a serious scientist who is
reading on this website for many years without
saying anything until recently. This is the first
time I somehow got into the mood to say so much.
Perhaps I would not do this anymore because I
do not want to get involved. I am interested but
not interested in getting involved as Confucius
said 君子不党 ( I do not claim that I am a 君子
at all, in case you misunderstand me -- I might
try to be a 君子, but I am merely a pure scientist).
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 22:05:00
Seewhy9,

I have no reservation to agree with what you said.
By "I do not care that much", I meant I do not talk
about that killing with only hatred. I do not mean
just go forward and forget about what happened. I
mean we should discuss about the killing as a scholar
and do not involve too much personal hatred. Therefore,
we may do better. Also, by "I do not care that much",
I meant "killing is a reality". My family member (very
extended to more than hundreds, most of them still live
there) killed each other because one side is communist
and another side is Guoming Tang. Which side I am going
take. I love each one of them. Say, the poorest uncle
joined the communist and killed the richest uncle who
was a Guoming Tang by the order of communist. Then, he
was killed by whoever (I believe by those Guoming Tang's
close family member, when I was a child) never being
found out. It is not clear about moral standard or
"legal foundation", at least it is very difficult
to say anything about that because it was happened
between two governments. I protected one person
who married a wife from a "Rich Long" family, he
was surprised to thank me during the cultural
revolution. I do have a moral bottom line.

I can see that you are
very reasonable, you realize that I am not those
people you might call 5 mao or whatever, I am the
one not involved in communist the most among 8
brothers because I did not like the politics or
communist. But, with my almost whole life experiences
with my communist brothers, I know them too well to
say they are totally wrong. My old brother just retired
a couple of years ago as a discipling secretary, he never
really reach to the center of the government. He is very
stubborn about communist, at least when he was young. He
believe that and he suffered too by being forced out from
a certain special army unit after someone told the army
my family actually was a "Landlord" before we were
reclassified to be PingLong (to be little merchant
again, and Landlord again for a short while in the
cultural revolution. I admit I am seeing the picture
in a different way because my family did not get too
much hurt during the long period. I am not better than
any of you. If my father was killed by the communist,
I might not be able to be neutral as I am now. I do not
blame anybody if one hates communist, Guoming Tang, or
whoever. My point is it may be better to be neutral
to discuss what happened in order to make the society
better. One more point, by what I said, I meant
unfortunately sometimes the world is very ugly. That
is the reality. No guarantee it would not happen
one thousands years later or in USA (say 100 years
later). It might be contrary to what you think, I
perfectly accept and agree with you on everything
you said. No any need to argue with you. This is
the first time I joined a little discussion in this
extent for some reason. I respect your attitude
toward the issue.

The key point I tried to make is that how we making
life better is more important. I suffered very much
in USA and got involved something beyond you may
imagine, I did not hate USA either and tried to
compromise without losing my moral ground. That
part, I do not have liberty to discuss here. I am
going to write down for my children (they can publish
in case if they want to only after my death). I can
not tell them now, they would have trouble to hear
the truth. I have to wait until they are still older.
USA democracy and freedom is not better (I do not say
it is worse) than any other government from my PERSONAL
experience. Every system is cheating and corrupted. USA
is much richer so that it is easy for many of you to
see the darkness unless you get involved in certain
level and areas. But, I can not afford to hate. I can
not AFFORD (can you?). I fought very hard to hold my
moral and whatever ground and succeeded eventually.
You may believe this statement from everything I said
before to trust that I am at least a serious and
independent thinker. Thank you for having responded
to my posting so directly. I do not think I am going
to involve in the discussion too much more. I only
tried to say something to you young guys from a
different angle. I knew I am not one of you guys
and I am almost sure I am older than you guys.
I did not even participate 89 movement; but observed
as an outsider. I would be happy if I help you to
see the matter from another angle, right or wrong.
I do not even want to claim I am the only with
RIGHT idea. That is from my scientific research
experiences. It is no harm to look the same thing
from another angle, you may see something you never
would see.

Best wishes to everybody who is serious and good luck
to you guys. Using Buddhist's way, happiness for
everybody and peace for the world!
回复 | 0
作者:seewhy9 留言时间:2011-02-06 18:54:47
谢谢Li15,至少你能认真介绍自己的情况,怀着对部分人的美好祝愿。

不知道我们可以如何讨论。只是提出个人一些想法:

相信你是主张人是应该有一定的主见,有一定的是非观。甚至有一定的信仰,并不一定要是哪一种现存的。

那你大概可以同意,做人要有一定的道德是非标准。虽然这很可能又引起争论。但是每个人自己心中还是会有一个杠杠范围,或者说,绝不低于某条线,而向往做的更好。

你不会是真的相信:“杀五十万平民”you don't care? 不涉及政治不等于没有是非标准,对吗?

你既然自认是一个科学家,当然很注重事实和历史的关系。你的家庭可能没有受到非常大的冲击或家破人亡,可是你能无视数以百万计的和你类似家庭背景的人们被极大地不公对待吗?

如果再放到更长一点的历史时期来看,那受到不公对待及摧残的的就是更大的数目了,你也不能视而不见吧?

有人喜欢说do not look back, let's move on.其实研究历史是为了更好地前进。鉴古知今。

好德,崇仁。做不到或不想做到:“忌恶如仇”,至少心里还要有对错的一杆秤吧?你能同意吗?
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 17:19:56
不跟帖不行,

I grew up in China, came to USA in 1989. I started to
learn to speak English (I could read very well before
then) at 40 years old. Now, some of my American people
which state I was born in USA as foolish as you think
that I grew up here in USA. My wife and son came to
USA 3 month later in 1989 and she got another college
education here in USA with the aid from the USA. I do
agree with you the life is much harder in China. Many
people suffered so much. But, we can only do something
for the future not the past, can we?

(By the way, my family and neighborhood live better
life because our ancestors left a very very big land
to the whole village after 2 of them were killed by
communist, who is also from an extended family. Rich
or poor, communist or anti-communist, all of them
are from the exact same ancestor who was a city officer
in early Qing dynasty after an examination. Whom I am
going to favor, one side or another, both sides are my
family from the exact the same ancestor??? They killed
each other! Whom I am going to blame? We have more than
500 people from the same ancestor in the area. Communists,
Guomoing Tangs, Buddhists, everything. They are all my
family. My family! I love every one of them, almost 1000
in an area. I call them uncles, granduncles, nephews, and
whatever appropriate. How I could hate any of them. They
are all my family. But, they killed each other (not
too much though) because of politics. If Japenese did
not burn almost the whole village, very few of my whole family from hundreds people are poor. They would be mostly
middle class. We should hate Japs, should we? But, hatred
would not help us. I even had to accept that fact Japs
burned the whole village after one of my family members
(very extended) killed a Jap because the Jap raped another
family member. The whole family chose not to fight, and nobody was killed by Japs though. I wanted to hate, but hatred does not help me. I feel sorry for you to hate!
That is why I said what I said. I am not planning to go
back at all, my youngest son became a US citizen after
he got a good offer from a 500 fortune company in US.
He did not become a citizen even when I became a US
citizen in case. But, nobody in my family here is going
back to China at all. I am not planning to contact Chinese
government either, I scolded a communist city level
officer (a friend of my family and he is in the city's
"people congress" now) with smile the last time I went
back visiting China a couple of years ago when he tried
to introduce me to the Mayor. His friends laughed back
to suggest continuing drinking with me. That officer
did not say much after he was openly shamed by me with smile. It was funny.

See the picture, Sir or Madam ???
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 16:49:10
Sir/Madam weewhy9:

I think better to tell you a little more. My father
gave up everything from his uncle (my grandfather
died young from something), who did not have
any children and raised my father as the only
child as a big landlord and merchant in a town
nearby to go back to the village living in a
cottage after he joined the communist party
a while before 1949 since his uncle's workers
joined the communist party. I was born in a
cottage and my parent was going to be beggars
before the local communist party secretary asked
my father to stay and to help him by becoming a
lower level officer. The second level local
government finally decided to allow my family
to still inherit a little bit from my father's
uncle to build a little house in 1957 I was born.
We finally became "little merchant" instead of
being a "Landlord" my old brother joined the
communist party too and eventually became a city
level discipline secretary. I never touched
politics because of my experience at 10 years old.
One of my young brother is an academic city college
officer now and communist. I am a pure scientist.
The big reason for my family in doing well is
our ancestors including my father's uncle
had a very very big land to give to our whole
neighborhood (later give to an even bigger
neighborhood in 1973 or so). Two biggest
landlords (one of them was a very good teacher,
both of them were from my extended family but
not very close to us) were killed by communist
government and the local communist secretary was
killed (he is a little bit more close to my family
than those two landlords) by whoever with the case
never solved (I believe it was those two landlords'
close family) and my father had to help that secretary's
son to get a job later on. The key reason was that
my family gave up a big fortune before the communist
took it since my father had many people inside
communist before 1949 and joined them and happily
live a poor life before land reform. Well, we became
"landlord" again during the cultural revolution but
without big suffer since my family suffered already
before. For your information, I suffered the most,
I was born not so well because of poorness, I was
beaten by the neighborhood kids when I was 10 years
old. I DO NOT blame killing because that is the reality.
I am not saying it is good. I am saying it is okay not
to hate and accept what happened so that we can move on
a better life. Enjoy the life, work hard, and hope the
best for your life. I could not be always smiling like
my father, but I really really inherited from my
father to be optimistic and happy whatever happens.
Life is hard, is it not? I wish everybody have
a better life from a Buddhist's point of view.
I am not a Buddhist either. I learn Christian,
Buddhism, communism, and everything. I wish
no war, no killing in this world. But, I have
to be realistic! I wish the best, I accept the
worst, I do everything (however terribly hard
beyond you can image) to earn for my family.
Are you willing to do so? I did the same in USA
and I obtain something beyond I tried to get.
BEYOND! Why should I say anything for the communist?
I do not even agree with my brothers becoming communists.
I earned better than they got from China. Why I favor
communist? No, I only tried to offer an advice (if
I would be qualified) to some young people (who think
that I may be qualified) to be realistic about the
tragedies in human life. I favor Buddhism over
communism; but I do not see Buddhists can govern.

I wish everybody including you to have a happy
life from my heart. I just came back from a Buddhist
meeting today while refusing to be a Buddhist. Why,
I do not like to be a member of any political party
or religion. I study New-confuciousness (not neo-
confuciousness in Song dynasty) because somebody
on this website says he wanted to establish a new
confiuciounism for the Chinese people. (Oh, confuciousness
is correct, other minor typos I can not care too much.)
But, I am a scientist who is only interested in
everything including politics without involving
politics. How about that?

Have a happy life. (NO MORE TO SAY, I have said
already beyond I would say. Only today.)
回复 | 0
作者:不跟帖不行 留言时间:2011-02-06 16:05:18
这德性,人格品味,一典型的街道办事处的小脚老太太北美版,好在这老太太生长在这儿,要是她生长在中国文革时期,那她就会害死人了,这儿她再会溜须拍马充其量只能被人当笑料捞点和留着万一回大陆找好处时的资本和后路,其实老太除了可气也挺可怜,老太太 投下的钱和时间,殊不知她这是肉包子打狗肉,共产党过河拆桥,翻脸不认人国内那都是一朝天子一朝人,吃了原告吃被告,黑吃黑,白吃黑,别说国内他们自己的人,海外爱国侨领被骗和利用的事实在是太多了,就凭这老太太这点小聪明,海外环境下操练出来的这点小儿科情商伎俩,玩得了信用道德丧失
怡尽人性扭曲多变的共产党,哈哈!老太有哭的在后面!
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 15:13:41
Seewy9: Sir/Madam,

I think I might understand history much much better
than somebody (I do not know about you). That is
why I said what I said. My family suffered some,
I was beaten by many kids when I was 10 years old.
But, I DO NOT BLAME THAT to Chinese government, I
realize that was because of human nature. It is
not good, is it? I was 10 years old, my father
was out of office, and then I was beaten by kids
from neighborhood. We learned from that, no fighting,
no begging, but working hard. My father got back
to office about 2 years later after he did something
without any title or benefit. My mother was against
what my father was doing. But, my father readily
accept whatever happened. He keeps working hard
and always smile to us -- a big family with 8 children.
I determined to work hard to get something better than
everybody. I did then and now. Five of my 7 brothers
have a college education, perhaps because our village
was (not is) a little rich than neighborhood from
a big land from our ancestors. It was taken again
in cultural revolution to give to the neighborhood
and we became poor. But, I insisted my young brothers
going to school and helped them financially and
academically. My youngest brother quit school because
of money issue and went back to school after I came
to USA. I paid partially his education from my scholarship
and he got a 3 years high school plus 3 years college
and now working for a bank. He complained once to me
but told me that life is much better than he would be
sweeping on the street if he did not go back to high
school.

I have told you a little bit about history and a
little bit about my family. That told you at least
a little bit why I said what I said. Do I have to
say more? I am willing to tell you anything, but,
I do not have too much time to waste on this website.
My "friend (seewy3 if I may)"! Be realistic! Of
course, it is perfect if you want to be a politician
and wish to bleed for building a better China. If
you do not wish to go to prison or bleed, you can
still SAY something to build a better China. Only,
I do not think complaining or being sarcastic would
help much. Tell me I am wrong. But, I said enough
for you because I have a little bit time today.
No more is needed to say because I do not want to
waste time here, you would forgive me for that
reason.
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 14:45:26
I only mean to remind you to be realistic
as I am in a good mood today and have some
time to spend.

The world is not perfect, human nature
makes the world very ugly sometimes. It is
okay! OKAY? You might be too young to
understand this, in case you do not know
anything in history. Killing will be in
this world forever. FOREVER! It is not a
big issue. Living a better life is what
you need to think about more. Not to blame
whichever government, Chinese or USA.

USA treats me very well because I work hard
(not because I am a dog of some politicians)
and am willing to sacrifice something to earn
what I should obtain, I do not have any reason
to please Chinese government. My whole family
is doing very well in USA. If you do well in
USA,why do you have to cry out to blame Chinese
government? Be successful and happy in USA and
hope China does even better! You do not have to
take my advice, but, it is your life (not mine)
on the stake. It is okay you say whatever you
want even "down with communist party", if saying
that would help you in your life. I never joined
any political party or movement. I was in Beijing
before and after June 4 for personal reasons.

Be realistic, get a better life for yourself.
Young guys! I am older than Liu Xiaobo. I admire
him. But, he has to be in prison because he is
now. Not because I like to see him in prison.
He is in prison because right now he loses.
He might win later (only might, not much chance);
so you can go that direction. If you want to be
like him, I admire your courage. Go back to China
to overthrow Chinese government!

But, be realistic -- if you try to get a better
life. I did not get a penny from Chinese government
when I came to USA in 1989 with a full scholarship
from USA, but I had to struggle very hard after that.
I made it after 20 years of struggling and get
something more than I expected. One of my even older
friends got a professorship at the age of 60 a few
year ago. If you are 40 years old, you may still try
to do that, can you? Perhaps you are not capable to
do that. If so, that explains why you are talking
POLITICS like that. POLITICS = BLOOD. If you do not
wish to sacrifice, do not talk about politics.

Well? Be realistic. Take my advice for your sake,
not for anybody else. I am happy if you cry "down
with Communist", it is okay whatever you say. But,
it might not be a good idea for yourself to waste
too much energy to blame around instead of working
hard to earn something for your family (or if you
have a family). I have disliked politics since I
was 10 years old, I chose a science career because
of that. So, you understand a little bit as I do
think you are smart people???
回复 | 0
作者:seewhy9 留言时间:2011-02-06 12:45:24
楼上这位写英文的,难道不知道历史是人自己写的吗?居然振振有词地说不在乎杀几百几千甚至五十万人。他这个话是要跟着他一辈子的,即使是违心说的,也是一辈子的事。

我不能说怀疑他说自己家庭出身是地主小商,但是我怀疑他能把自己家庭在解放前后,特别是土改和历次运动中的遭遇写出来与大家分享。
回复 | 0
作者:sunzhong 留言时间:2011-02-06 11:50:59
好文。中共当今的所作所为已证明了自己是全世界最没有自信的当权者,我对中国的前途很乐观,中共无时不在为自己挖坟墓,任何新的政权都不会比中共更残暴,独裁和腐败了。
回复 | 0
作者:巴山人 留言时间:2011-02-06 11:21:54
“中国是指的那一片辽阔的山河和在那里生生不息的父老同胞们,那灿烂的丰富文化。”

这句话代表了大多数海外华人的心声。顶!
回复 | 0
作者:顶顶牛 留言时间:2011-02-06 11:09:47
中国历史的封建王朝一般有个几百年的寿命,不能证明他们就是合理的
回复 | 0
作者:共党汉奸 留言时间:2011-02-06 10:13:28
比如那个“垫捞班”dianlaoban,就专门捞土共吃剩下的
回复 | 0
作者:共党汉奸 留言时间:2011-02-06 10:01:46
“认同中国,热爱中华文化和那片辽阔的河山,但是在心里同中共拉开距离,更不能认同中共政权。否则,那就是认贼做父了”。

博主讲得太对了。
回复 | 0
作者:共党汉奸 留言时间:2011-02-06 09:52:29
赞博主的好文章。土共就是一帮民族败类。这些败类整天像猪一样拿公款大吃大喝,贪污受贿,吹牛拍马,独裁专制,欺压百姓,压制新闻言论自由,把中国的国家资源霸作土共的党产。土共对外是汉奸窝囊废。中国老百姓穷的叮当响,可土共还拿着老百姓的血汗钱大把大把给洋人进贡。总有一些被土共洗了脑的奴才时不时给土共唱赞歌,这些奴才是爱党不爱国。
回复 | 0
作者:dianlaoban 留言时间:2011-02-06 09:46:07
那你就等着吧, 估计你这辈子都没戏了,可怜的胡同串子
回复 | 0
作者:极右派 留言时间:2011-02-06 09:11:10
难得好文章,这些上蹿下跳的人都有其经济目的,和领馆勾结在一起, 浪费一点中国纳税人的残羹,要讲这些丑事公布于众。
回复 | 0
作者:极右派 留言时间:2011-02-06 09:06:03
那位写英文的语无伦次,怎么回事?
回复 | 0
作者:li15 留言时间:2011-02-06 08:58:17
USA, or Bush Government invaded Iraqi and killed
at least a half million civilian there. But, as
a USA citizen, I do not really care. I care about
the human right there. But, I do not really care,
because that is the human nature. Every now and
then killing is there (I do not mean the killing
everyday on the street of USA !!!). You have your
personal reason to hate China's government. But,
take it for real. Do not be a dog of USA to say
that to your own people. Say that only for your
hatred of Chinese Government! Do not use Chinese
People's name either. I was one of them. My big
family is still there. Some of them are okay
enough, a few of them are not very good. But,
they do not blame the government. Get in real,
sir (I intended in using sir not Sir).

Say that whoever killed your family member.
Say that whoever took your property 50 years
ago. Do not say Chinese Government is bad
(than USA government) because they killed
some people on June 4. I was there in the
middle. I was there on June 10th (you were
not there?) again. It is okay to kill some
people who tried to overthrow the government,
even though the government may be on the
wrong side. If you want to fight, another side
of course can fight back. It does not matter
who is right, it does matters only who won. If
you can won, or if you can ask people to follow
you to win the control over China, you are my
hero, even if you a dog of USA. I do not even
know you would be better than Chinese government
if you would have any chance to govern. But, if
you lose, get for real. Find a job in USA and
live your life. Do not be a loser's politician.
By the way, I have no reason to mean you can not
bad mouth about China. It is your choice. What
I am trying to say is that it is better for you
to live your life and do not say something out
of hatred. My family was a (landlord and little
merchant) DIZHU and XiaoShang. We do not hate
the government. Hating will only harm yourself.
Find a better way to live in USA and perhaps
better (in my opinion) not being a dog of USA.
回复 | 0
作者:顶顶牛 留言时间:2011-02-06 07:00:17
“现在,中共政权什么都缺,唯独不缺钱。”
=============
秃迷俺觉的您说的太好了。

老秃新年好!
回复 | 0
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