越洋访谈（一）：一个普通美国人眼中的陈光诚事件 丹奇 （2012年5月22日）
前言：近一段时间以来，网络和现实中，海外华人和美国人都在对中国盲人陈光诚事件进行讨论，很多，很广泛，很深刻。我出差在国内，却是没有听到任何百姓对此事有何议论。放眼望去，似乎人人都在忙于自己的生意，生计而无暇他顾。陈光诚一事似乎没有在国内社会泛起一点涟漪。国内的人们一旦从网络社区回到现实，该干嘛还得干嘛，生存要紧。再看美国，似乎网络社会也在对此议论纷纷，现实社会，政府的行动和媒体的报道也在美国社会造成两种不同的态度。一部分人为陈光诚最终来美表达了善良的祝福，另一部分则认为美国政府是多管闲事。对此，还有人怀疑那些反对陈光诚来美的人不是真正的美国人。 为了了解真正的美国人的真实想法，咱虽身在国内，还是设法邀请到一位美国生意伙伴沃伦接受咱的网络访谈。他以一个老美的眼光，从开始的“似乎没想那么多”，到后面“越想越多”，似乎也能给我们提供多一个看问题的角度。他的意见也只是一孔之见，但却是咱亲自获取的第一手资料，有无代表性，也是仁者见仁智者见智的事了。下面，就请开始收听咱们的访谈吧： Me: Hi Guy, Let’s not talk about business today, I have an interesting issue to discuss with you. did you hear about the story of a Chinese blind man who came to USA?what is your opinion? 我：嗨，伙计，咱今天不谈生意，我有一件有趣的事情想跟你讨论。 你知道中国盲人来到美国的事情吗？你有什么看法？ Warren: Blind Man? he in NY 沃伦： 盲人吗？他在纽约。 me: yes, he went to NYU,what do you think about the the entire story? I like to hear some different voice, can you write about it? 我； 对，他去纽约大学了。你对整个事件有何想法？ 我想听一些不同的声音，你想写点什么吗？ Warren: no real opinion on it,samo samo, govt try to silence guy, guy gets away 沃伦： 没啥想法呢，老调重弹而已。政府要让这个人闭嘴，这个人跑掉了 me: oversease chinese big fight on it 我：海外华人为此而争斗厉害呢。 Warren: make govt look bad,usa solves problem says he can study here and get a "professor" job at some school, china look bad,,,but also solves problem and gets it off the daily news, that's about it, personally- i think the guy just looking for fame, want to be martyr 沃伦：让中国政府很难堪。美国把问题解决了。说他可以在这里学习，并在某校获得教授的工作。中国很难看。但是也解决了问题。使这事不再每天报道了。就这么多。从我个人而言：我认为这家伙只是为了出名，想当殉道者。 me: do you think hecan be a professor？ 我；你认为他可以当教授？ Warren: he'll teach human rights stuff, rights of people 沃伦：他会教人权, 人的权利之类 me: donyou think Obama gonna look bad? 我： 你认为奥巴马会很难堪吗？ Warren: why obama look bad ? 沃伦：为啥奥巴马难看？ me: some American says that he can't even save his own poeple job but nosy about other country 我：有美国人说他不能管好自己国家人民的失业问题，却去多管别国的闲事。 Warren: everybody happy here,,, : it's like "saving the whales"...we did a "good deed" 沃伦： 这里人人都为此高兴啊。就好像是“救了鲸鱼”，我们做了一件好事。 me: go to yahoo, many people complaining 我: 去雅虎看看，好多人在抱怨呢。 Warren: about what? 沃伦： 抱怨啥？ me: complain about US taxpayers pays his family to survive, he is not contributing to USA 我：抱怨说美国纳税人为他和家人买单，而他没有对美国社会有任何贡献。 Warren: doubt it,,,probably locals and theuniversity,they are the ones who pay,private funding but i personally think the guy just looking to be famous,,,,trouble maker type....i think he'll cause problem here and embarrass USA at some point 沃伦：不会吧。也许是当地人或大学支付的。他们才是付钱的人。私人基金。但是我个人认为这个人只是想出名。麻烦制造者。我认为他会给我们这里制造麻烦，一定的时候可能让美国难堪。 me: I am trying to find out, the real thinking 我: 我想了解你的真实的想法。 Warren: that my thinking, most people are happy he get out, think it cause problem for china, make china look weak,but actually - why keep a problem that the whole world keeps focus on? get rid of the problem,,,and usa took him in, so, problem solved,no he'll be our problem, now he'll be our problem. 沃伦： 那是我的想法。大多数人为他能出来感到高兴。认为这事是给中国制造问题。让中国看上去很软弱。但是，事实上----为何要留着一个举世瞩目的问题呢？解决掉这个问题。。。然后，美国把他要来了。所以，问题解决了。不，他将成为我们的问题了。现在，他是我们的问题了。 me: Do you think that Rpublicans are using him as bullet to shoot Obama？ 我：你认为是共和党要用他当子弹打击奥巴马？ Warren: people like him i think like to cause issue...soon he'll be yakking it up the "usa needs to do this, and that",,,and soon he'll just be a pain in the ass, the dems look good on this - not the R's it's the Dems that got him out,,,the R's just yaking 沃伦：像他这样的人喜欢制造事端。很快，他就会吵吵 “美国需要做这个，那个”。。。很快，他将成为一个讨厌鬼。民主党在这件事上做的好看。而不是共和党。是民主党帮了他。共和党只是瞎嚷嚷。 me: but it's gonna back fire on dem，right? 我: 但是，民主党将会因此后患无穷，对吗？ Warren: gonna back fire on Dems and R's 沃伦：民主党和共和党都将有后患。 me: some people say he just fighting for his own rights by disobeying the national policy that favor more people's rights，what do you think? 我： 有人说他只是为了个人的权利而斗争，而不遵守惠及大多数人的国策，你怎么看？ Warren: the problem is that it will encourage every knucklehead there to try to do the same thing -and they'll all want to come to USa cuz china ain't all that....otherwise people not always want to come here, and the big sharks wouldn't try to get all their money out of there and get it to USA or europe, even the big sharks not plan to stay there, look at that guy and his wife - moving almost $ 1billion, never see american trying to get some where else, no american snake heads to get to china,or mexico,or canada 沃伦： 问题是，这会鼓励其他头脑发热的人效仿。。他们都会想来美国，因为中国并不是他们想呆的地方。不然的话，人们就不会总是想来美国，那些大人物也不会把所有的钱挪出那儿，弄到美国或欧洲去。甚至大人物都不想呆在那里。看看你们那个家伙和他的老婆—转移了将近10亿美元。从来没有看见美国人试图移民到其他国家去，没有美国蛇头想去中国，墨西哥或者加拿大。 me: some guy in China already copying and trying to do the same by attacking an USA guy in Beijing to get international attention, No, lots of people now snaking into China from russia or North Korea, Africa and many other countries now 我： 中国已经有人在效仿，并试图攻击一个美国人以引起国际关注。不过，现在还是有不少俄罗斯人，北朝鲜人，非洲国家或其他国家的人偷渡到中国去呢。 Warren: they're not americans, lol, russia,,,who can blame them, it's a POS，corrupt too,and cold as hell. but soon the Chen and his family won't be news- unless he try stir the pot. so he'll probably align himself with those types, and be the "leader" and yak it up too much.like those people who sit in front of consulate and pray all day. so, they just need keep him busy teaching some class in NY and stay out of the way.i don't think media here that interested in him. the story over,,,he is here now..so, now what ? 沃伦：他们不是美国人啊。（笑）， 俄罗斯？ 没人责怪他们。那是个POS， 也很腐败，天气冷的要死。但是，不久，陈和他的家人就不是新闻了---除非他又搞出点事来。所以，他可能把自己跟那些什么组织搞到一起。成为什么“领袖”， 吵吵起来。像那些整天坐在领事馆，前面祷告的人那样。所以，美国需要让他在纽约大学忙着教课，淡出视野。我不认为这里的媒体对他那么感兴趣。故事已经结束了。他已经在这里了。然后，然后怎么样？ Me: But some Chinese people overseas cheering him verymuch by calling him human rights hero, what do you think? 我: 但是，有些海外华人为他欢呼，称呼他是人权英雄，你怎么看？ Warren: it's funny -most of those right wing R's don't want some mexican here that just wants to mow your lawn for a good price, but instead they want to support with 1000 times as much money some freakin' guy who can't speak english and really doesn't have an education that the way i see it 沃伦： 很搞笑。大多数共和党右派不想让那些只是想以低廉的价钱为你家院子除草的墨西哥人来美国，但是，反过来，他们却要花上一千倍的价钱支持把一个既不能说英语，又没有受过什么教育的人来美国。这就是我的看法。 me: that's why people doubting this is the some kind of political fight between d and r 我： 所以有人认为这是民主党和共和党之间的斗争，你认为呢？ Warren: i don't think the USA wanted him,,,it was just big news at the time, and china not want him either.hopefully, i think USA just hope he stays low key 沃伦：我不认为美国真的要他来。只是因为当时是个大新闻。中国也不要他。我认为，美国希望他保持低调。 me: what do you think about his future， do you think he can survive well? 我： 你认为他的前途如何？ Warren: his future? he not have future here,for a while he's ok,,,but soon the "star power" wears off and Americans find another "pet" project,,,then forget about him 沃伦：他的前途？ 他在这里没有前途。他可能有一阵子没啥问题。但是，很快，“明星效应”会消失，美国又会找到另一个“宠物”工程，然后把忘到后脑勺。 me: some people say he can survive on people's donation 我：有人说，他可以靠捐赠谋生 Warren: after a while people won't want to donate....it always happen that way 沃伦：过一阵子，就没人捐款了。历来如此。 me: do you believe people will donate for his whole family for his life? 我：你认为有人会为他全家负责捐款一辈子吗？ Warren: no,,,no way 沃伦：不可能，绝无可能。 me: then, what will be his future? 我： 那么，他的前景如何？ Warren: he has to bring something to the table,his future? probably get his wife a job in restuarant, maybe she get 2 jobs, 沃伦: 他必须有所贡献。他的前途？也许给他老婆在餐馆找一份工作，也许她需要打双份工。 me: that means, he has to keep fightingwith China on USA soil like other dissidents? 我: 这么说，他不得不像其他异议人士一样，继续在美国土壤上与中国作对？ Warren: his story isn't fight against china for lots of people,,it was just his fight 沃伦：他的故事不是为了许多人与中国作对，只是为了他自己的权利而战的。 me: for himself? 我： 为他自己？ Warren: it's not a "movement",it's just one guy and his complaints against the govthe not fighting for a bunch of people, 沃伦: 这不是一个“运动”。只不过是某一个人对政府的抱怨。他不是为一群人而斗争。 me: do you think he is human rights fighter and hero? 我： 你认为他是人权斗士和英雄吗？ Warren: the thing he was doing before about complain about "foreced abortion" or whatever,,,,that not just his fight,,,that other issue, not his, that not just one person the reason he here is his own personal complaint 沃伦：他以前做的投诉“强行流产”之类， 那不是一个人的斗争，那是另一码事，不是他一个人的。他来这里的理由是他个人的抱怨。 me: why you think so? 我： 你为何这么认为呢？ Warren: why think so ? cuz that's all that reported,,,about how he detained in house, yada yada yada,,, 沃伦：为啥这么认为？因为这是媒体报道的啊。关于他如何被监视居住在房子里。等等等等。 Me: it is said, China spent 30 million on all sorts of suvailance equipment to watch him and detain him, what do you think? 我： 据说，中国花了3千万人民币在安装监视系统上来监视他监禁他，你怎么看？ Warren:costr $30million? that's ridiculous,get him and his family some plane tickets and the school put him up somoewhere,less than $10,000..whoever say $30mil is just hyping nothing. it's like fishing,,,evetrybody make the fish bigger,maybe china spend $30mil over time,,,,usa not gonna do that...private funders got him a plane ticket, and the school put him up in some shitty apartment, in 2 weeks nobody talk about him any more until he makes noise, 沃伦：花了3千万？ 太可笑了。 给他和他的家人每人一张机票，学校安置他，也不超过一万美元。谁要是说3千万，那只是夸大宣传。就好像钓鱼，每个人都把鱼越传越大。 也许中国持续花了3千万。美国不会这么做。私人基金给他一张机票，学校安排他们住在一间简陋的公寓里，两周后，就没人谈论他的事情了。直到他又整出响动。 me: what do you think he can do here? 我：你认为他在这里能有所作为吗？ Warren: the only thing he can accomplish here is to stir up a bunch of people here,,,but those people not need him to stir up ,,they get stirred up about everything anyway, 沃伦: 他在这里所能做的就是鼓动起一批人，但是，那些人不需要他来鼓动。他们反正会为任何事情而鼓噪。 me: what do you think about China let him go?good choice or bad 我： 你认为中国放他走是做的对还是不对？ Warren: in one way it makes them look weak,in another they solve a problem and get rid of the guy,,let him get lostin the noise of america, 沃伦：一方面（中国放他走）让他们看上去很软弱。另一方面，他们解决了一个问题，把他搞走了。让他消失在美国的噪音里。 me: what is the difference between the declining of an official's asylum petition who has more stuff that can interest USA, but take in a blind man who has almost no valuable information for USA?How you think of this? 我： 美国对于一个可以为他们带来重要情报的高官的庇护申请拒绝了，却接受了一个对美国没有任何价值的盲人，这里的区别是什么，你有什么看法？ Warren: the value of the Chen is that his story is more widely reported and he just a obody,,,,not a big issue for china, but the official could cause real disruptions in the relations of the 2 ountries. plus - we probably already had or got the info the official was looking to bargain with. so, that's just a loser,,,he probably not have much of real value to the usa, just some dirt on some people。 沃伦：陈的价值在于他的故事广为流传，他只是一个无名小卒。对中国无足轻重。但是那个高官就会真正地引起两国之间的关系破裂。再说，我们也许已经掌握了那些那个高官用来讨价还价的情报。因此，准许高官的申请不是上策。他也许根本对美国没有什么价值，他手里只有某人的一些把柄而已。 me: many people dream to come to USA,and has not real channel, can copy this, petition for asylum. Do you think America will take them all in? 我： 许多人梦想来美国，但是又没有渠道，可以效仿他们，美国会接受吗？ Warren: there is no problem for resettlement of people just because they don't like where they are.economic reasons is not a cause for asylumand USa very wise about all the scams chinese use before to stay here - religion, had to get aboriton, etc.. 沃伦: 人民想到哪里从新定居应该没有问题，但是，经济原因不是政治庇护的理由。美国很明白中国人以前为了留下来而用过的那些骗术---宗教，强迫流产等等。 me: what if they are dissidents? 我： 如果他们是政治异见人士呢？ Warren: hard to do now 沃伦： 现在很难了。 me: so you think ameircan govtthink those are just tricks? 我： 因此，你认为美国政府认为那都是骗术 Warren: yes, watch all that very closely 沃伦： 是的，政府现在对此看的很紧。 me: then why do they still take Chen, some people think he played that trick 我: 那么美国为啥还要收留陈呢。有人认为他也是用了这个把戏。 Warren: i'm not there, so i don't know,,,personally i'd have left him there, bigger problems to solve in the world than his 沃伦： 我不在那里，所以我不知道。。。。从个人角度， 我会把他留在中国。美国有比他的问题更大的麻烦需要解决。 me: why do you think OBAMA has to take him 我: 那为啥奥巴马还是要收留他？ Warren: it makes it look like negotiated agreement - china ok to let him go to "study overseas' and there was place here, NY, that said he could study there, so, it was easy way out to solve for both sides,i think the USA probly was thinking " i wish this guy would just go away"."he just fucking up stuff for our big meeting",cause problems. 沃伦： 这让整个事情看上去是谈好的条件：中国同意让他离开去“留学”，然后这里就有地方，纽约大学，说，他可以来这里学习。这对双方都是容易的解决方案。我想，美国或许可能当时这么想来着“我真希望这个家伙可以走开”“他在这里给我们这么重要的会议捣乱，制造问题。” me: what big meeting？ 我: 什么会议？ Warren: you need to get "american" mentality.big meeting that Hillary was there, he was interrupting her, the Chen planned the escape for that。 沃伦： 你们要懂得美国人的心理活动。就是希拉里在中国参加的那个会议，他去干扰她。陈是有预谋的逃跑。 me: I heard that he wanted her to bring him back to USA 我: 听说他要求希拉里带他回美国？ Warren: dreaming! so, one guy cause much tension in those talks between USA and china 沃伦： 做梦吧！ 一个家伙给美中之间的会谈制造了许多紧张气氛。 me: so USA don't like it? 我: 这么说，美国不喜欢这件事？ Warren: internally im sure they wish it not happen. Gary Lockewould not want the guy to stay there 沃伦： 内部来说，我相信他们不想发生这样的事。骆家辉不会想让他呆在那里。
（此节完，下一节为另一主题）
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