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细分之争源头详情/亚裔教职人员公开信 2017-08-11 07:58:47

逸草:对亚裔细分无论是反对、支持,还是不置可否,弄明白源头详情,总多少有助于思考。


亚裔细分是对华人的迫害吗?

原创 2017-08-10 守护盖娅 

转自“反谣言中心”


近期,某关注度颇高的北美华人公众号发贴号召在美华人读者积极抵制奥巴马的第13515号总统令(EO 13515)。行政令和法案不太一样,涉及美国政治运行的一些基本知识,略有复杂。这个行政令是奥巴马2009年颁布的,涉及到了目前热门且敏感的“亚裔细分”。命令的名称是“Increasing Participation of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Federal Programs”[1],官方的说法是旨在“恢复白宫亚裔和美属太平洋岛屿居民事务机构,以改善这些少数族裔的健康、教育和经济处境。”[2]


不过这个法案明确使用了“disaggregate data”(数据细分)这个表达方式,被认为是鼓励各地进行亚裔细分,以至于后续美国部分州通过了亚裔细分法案。部分人士将奥巴马8年前的这个行政令视为种族主义歧视华人,并且和1882年的排华法案相提并论。


本文开篇提及的公众号特意提供了“请愿”式的模板,希望美国现任总统川普能够重视AA议题,并通过取消13515号行政命令来撼动对华裔的歧视[3]。


不出所料,绝大多数人没有阅读这个行政令的全文,这个行政命令到底说了什么呢?



摘要:

1. 奥巴马2009年的13515号行政命令并非“排华法案”


2. 号召川普废除13515号行政命令也并非华裔争取教育平权的最佳途径


一、奥巴马的13515号行政命令究竟是不是“排华法案”?


由于诸多人在讨论13515号行政命令时往往只局限于“种族细分”,特别是教育细分这一议题,而忽略了原总统令中“提升亚裔和美属太平洋岛屿居民(AAPI)群体利益”这一部分。此处应该先看一下行政令原文的内容:


EO 13515 - Increasing Participation of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Federal Programs

“... Of the more than a million AAPI-owned businesses, ... many firms are small sole-proprietorships that continue to need assistance to access available resources such as business development counseling and small business loans. .... Specific challenges experienced by AAPI subgroups include lower college-enrollment rates by Pacific Islanders than other ethnic groups and high poverty rates among Hmong Americans, Cambodian Americans, Malaysian Americans, and other individual AAPI communities. Additionally, one in five non-elderly AAPIs lacks health insurance. ”[4]


行政命令原文举例提到了AAPI群体面临的几个实际的问题:

商业发展咨询

小商业贷款

太平洋岛屿国家的高等教育低录取率

苗裔(Hmong)、柬埔寨裔、马来裔等群体的高贫困率


可以看出,原文中出发点在于协助亚裔和美属太平洋岛屿居民群体(AAPI)解决联邦项目的实际援助效应。无论华裔是否被细分,华裔仍将归属于AAPI群体。在此处急于从源头上切断一个针对AAPI群体的总统令,如何在损害AAPI整体权益的前提下单独提升华裔群体福祉,反对者还没有提供很好的解释。


另外一方面,华裔关注法案延续或废除的焦点,主要源于在高校录取中种族配额制以及相应的亚裔细分法案的争论。此处暂时抛开是否应当支持或反对平权法案(Affirmative Action)不谈,13515号行政命令本身并非是一个专门针对华裔的总统令,涉及国家范围远超中国,涉及联邦援助的领域也并非教育一家


单从性价比的角度看,仅仅是为了保证华裔在教育机构上的录取率而寄托于川普斩断一个涉及到诸多东亚、东南亚和南亚国家族裔的福利法案,若不是“自私”的话,是否可以说是得不偿失呢?


另一方面来讲,华裔在美国的政治参与度,和拉丁裔及非裔相比本身就已经略低。此时若是为了华裔的利益而打翻了整个亚裔的蛋糕,未来又如何期望其他族裔在类似议题上共同发声?


二、号召特朗普废除13515号行政命令是不是华裔争取教育平权的最佳途径?


1. 民主党确实支持平权法案,但共和党反对平权法案吗?


这个问题不言自明。首先,川普在上台后展现出强烈的种族主义倾向,对穆斯林六国开出禁令,面对南方邻居墨西哥继续大喊“修墙”。


华裔在此时希望川普突然变脸,对华裔笑脸相迎,本身就是一种强烈的玛丽苏情结——希望自己喜欢的人“对所有其他人都是混球,但对自己像蜂蜜一样甜”。在InsideGov整理的总统候选人立场中,川普对于平权法案的态度时而支持,时而反对[5]。


如果真像一些人所说的,”奥巴马和民主党是一群种族主义者,而川普和共和党是反平权法案的大救星”,那么他们如何解释在共和党的调查中,只字未提平权法案呢?[6]


2. 废除13515号行政命令,用经济地位决定联邦援助方向,真的对美国华人有利吗?


本文开头提及的北美某华人公众号请愿文中,特意提到了希望川普能够用经济地位代替种族决定公众援助的发放。此处也暂不纠结奥巴马政府本身就已经有按照经济地位申请联邦援助的项目(Afordable Care Act),单就这个政策方向来看,目前华裔在美国的经济地位不说顶尖,平行和其他小族裔来比肯定是更好的。倘若真的实行了,仍然会是以优先保证太平洋岛民和东南亚等相对贫困族裔福祉的联邦援助项目。那时华人若想上常春藤名校,可能先要看一下自己够不够穷吧?


3, 为什么有华人支持亚裔细分和种族配额制?


平权法案本身只是决定了在面对教育资源不平衡的情况下,我们应当更多倾向于公平(标准化考试,按照学生能力录取)还是更多倾向于平等(给予资源匮乏的少数族裔更多优先录取的机会)。在这个基础价值上,也就不难理解为何有些华人和亚裔会支持法案。很多人将自己认同为“美国人”,那么种族配额制在原则上倾斜于经济地位劣势的族裔,为何还要遭到反对?


4. 假设平权法案从明天彻底消失,华人就能摆脱歧视了吗?

在凯瑟琳·米尔科曼(Kathirine Milkman)等人的调查中,6500名教授整体偏向于给白色人种回应[7]。这其中的偏见不言自明。可以看出,平权法案并不是亚裔学生录取受阻的关键因素。


有部分人士认为,数据收集即是种族清洗的前兆。但即使平权法案消失,那些在决定录取时怀有偏见的人,还是可以从学生的姓名、居住地、实习和工作经历中嗅出蛛丝马迹。不要说是大学招生官,很多华裔在找租房室友时都会对申请者的名字多看两眼。企图在申请过程中免去自报家门的手续,无异于掩耳盗铃。


反对歧视,就要真正对抗歧视本身,寄希望于在歧视的体制内靠躲过有色眼镜的筛选,无非是消极抵抗的鸵鸟政策罢了。


参考链接

[1] https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2009-obama.html#13515

[2] http://news.china.com/zh_cn/international/1000/20091015/15667614.html

[3] https://gop.com/listening-to-america-surveys/?pgtype=nohead&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ET_16&utm_campaign=20170711_1074_Listening-To-America_DonaldJTrump_RNC&utm_content=GOP_surveys_Button-Bottom-Take

[4] https://sites.ed.gov/aapi/aapi-data-disaggregation/

[5] http://presidential-election-issues.insidegov.com/l/2/Affirmative-Action

[6] https://gop.com/listening-to-america-surveys/?pgtype=nohead&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ET_16&utm_campaign=20170711_1074_Listening-To-America_DonaldJTrump_RNC&utm_content=GOP_surveys_Button-Bottom-Take

[7] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2063742a




一封来自亚裔、太平洋裔教职人员的关于族裔数据的公开信 – 2017年8月

链接:

http://aapidata.com/blog/educators-letter-translated-aug-2017/?from=timeline


478位教职人员签署了以下的公开信,支持亚裔及太平洋裔细分数据的搜集并澄清这一举措的目的和意义。


一封来自亚裔、太平洋裔教职人员的关于族裔数据的公开信 – 2017年8

我们是k-12学校和大学的亚裔老师和教授,我们对日渐壮大的针对数据细分的反对之声担忧不已。

这些反对的声音是从我们群体的内部发出的。近日,有近50位华裔美国人(包括儿童)聚集在罗德岛反对一项数据搜集新政。这一新政策得到了许多亚裔教育组织的支持,如Alliance of Rhode Island Southeast Asians for Education (ARISE)和亚裔青年组PrYSM等。这一新政规定小学和中学在搜集亚裔数据时要给出具体的细分选项。

细分数据会被合理使用,从而更好的了解每个社区中亚裔学生群体的不同。罗德岛的抗议和加州的抗议是一致的。这其中都包含了很多具有煽动性和极具误导性的语言,甚至将此政策与德国的纽伦堡法案相比。

这种对比真的是骇人听闻!亚裔社区搜集族裔数据已经有很长的历史了,一直以来这一举措都为更好的服务亚裔族群做出了贡献。

搜集亚裔数据数据意味着亚裔数据的选项将被细分至具体的族群。亚裔填写族裔一栏时,可以只填亚裔,也可以自发性的选择填写具体的族群,比如“韩国人”、“中国人”或“越南人”。他们也可以选择不止一个细分族群来更好的反映他们自己的族裔背景。细分数据是美国统计局搜集数据的主要指导思想。这一举措将实打实的为亚裔社区带来许多福利。比如加强选举系统的语言协助,双语教育,学生心理健康服务,并能更好地提供满足各个族群文化和传统需求的县医院医疗服务。

在过去的三十年里面,亚裔和太平洋裔的社区领导人,民选官员,学者,老师,教授和学生都在积极地呼吁搜集细分数据。这种呼声在1965年达到了高潮,因为那一年美国第一次废除了移民国籍配额制。当亚裔群体日渐壮大后,很多学校和政府机构都不能有效地区分不同亚裔的历史,经历和社会需求,因为亚裔总是被归类成一大族群。这一同质化的做法使得了解和服务不同亚裔社区的需求变成了一项巨大的挑战。这种现象更造成了教育机构,医疗机构和社会服务机构误解和忽略亚裔中不同族群的需求。

作为教育者,老师,和大学的教职人员,我们在尽最大的努力去了解我们学生群体所面对的挑战,更好地服务和支持他们在教育方面的多样需求。但是,没有高质量的数据,我们无法做到这一点!比如说,柬埔寨,老挝,夏威夷岛民和萨摩亚人在社区大学的毕业率远小于其他族群。心理健康问题在不同的亚裔群体之间也有着巨大的差别。比如华裔女性比起其他族群有更高的自杀率。高质量的细分数据是了解各个群体中学生所面临的挑战的关键。更为重要的是,这将为有需要的学生提供更多来自公共或私立系统的资源。

将搜集亚裔数据和纳粹德国的纽伦堡法案做对比具有极大的误导性,完全误会了这一举措的目标和意图。很久以来,亚裔美国人包括华裔同胞一直走在呼吁具体数据搜集的第一线。我们想在公开信中再一次诚恳的向各位呼告,搜集细分数据的目的绝不是为了孤立任何一个群体来迫害或监视他们。相反的,搜集细分数据是为了更好的了解和支持我们群体中的各个族裔,来保证在教育问题上,我们对所有学生的帮扶做到一个不落。

作为教育者,我们坚定地相信大家有必要一如既往的支持搜集高质量的细分数据从而更好的服务亚裔学生的多样需求。

以下是所有签署这封公开信的教职人员 (我们记录了附属学校、机构的信息以保证签名的真实性)

  1. Aaron Parayno, Assistant Director- Asian American Center at Northeastern University

  2. Abbie Bates, UCLA

  3. Abby Chien, Program Manager, University of Michigan

  4. Abhinav Mishra, Medical Student- Texas Tech Health Science Center Paul L. Foster School of Medicine.

  5. Aggie Noah, Assistant Professor; Arizona State University

  6. Ah Young Chi, School Counselor, Hong Kong International School

  7. Alethea Serna, Associate Professor, University of Hawaii at Manoa

  8. Alisa Carithers, Academic Advisor, Cal State L.A.

  9. Allan Colbern, Assistant Professor, Arizona State University

  10. Alyss Dixson, Lecturer, San Francisco State University

  11. Amanda Assalone, Postdoctoral Research & Policy Analyst, Southern Education Foundation

  12. Amanda Seaman, Professor, University of Massachusetts Amherst

  13. Ami Thakkar, Resident Director at Loyola University Chicago

  14. Amita Manghnani, Director of Public Programs, Asian/Pacific/American Institute at NYU

  15. Amy Bhatt, Associate Professor, University of Maryland, Baltimore County

  16. Ana Rossetti, Assistant Dean, Illinois Institute of Technology

  17. Andre Yang, Lecturer, California State University, Fresno

  18. Andrew Chin, Professor, University of North Carolina School of Law

  19. Andrew Leong, Assistant Professor, Northwestern University

  20. Andrew Yao, Teacher – Manor ISD

  21. Angela Arunarsirakul, Educator

  22. Angela Kong, Instructor and Program Coordinator, UCSD

  23. Angela Vo, Former Teacher

  24. Angela Wu, Assistant Director, Williams College

  25. Angie Chung, Associate Professor, University at Albany

  26. Angie Kim, Residence Hall Assistant Director, New York University

  27. Anjela Wong, teacher educator

  28. Ankita Rakhe, Assistant Dean/Associate Director, Stanford University

  29. Anna Gonzalez, organizer, association for asian american studies

  30. Anna Lau, Professor, UCLA

  31. Anna Takahashi, Director of College Counseling, Eastside College Preparatory School

  32. Annabelle Estera, Graduate Assistant, Michigan State University

  33. Anne Joh, Professor of Theology and Culture

  34. Anne Saw, Assistant Professor, DePaul University

  35. Anne Vo, Assistant Professor of Medical Education / USC

  36. Anthony Antonio, Assoc Professor of Education, Stanford University

  37. Anthony Kim, Program Coordinator, Colorado State University

  38. Antony Wong, Program Coordinator, AAARI-CUNY

  39. Anuradha Advani, Teacher, Simon Academics, Inc.

  40. Arshad Ali, Assistant Professor, George Washington University

  41. Arun Ponnusamy, Head Counselor & Vice President, Collegewise

  42. Bach Mai Dolly Nguyen, University of California, Los Angeles

  43. Baldeep Pabla, Lecturer, San Francisco State University

  44. Barbara Kim, Professor, Dept. of Asian and Asian American Studies, CSULB

  45. Barry Chaiveera, Assistant Director, UCLA

  46. Ben Medeiros, Housing & Residence Life Administrator within Student Affairs

  47. Benedicto Llave, Department Coordinator, Cesar Chavez Community Action Center, San Jose State University

  48. Benjamin Chang, The Hong Kong Institute of Education

  49. Bernard Liang, Director, Center for Student Involvement, Seattle University

  50. Betina Hsieh, Assistant Professor, California State University, Long Beach

  51. Bianca Louie, Instructor – City College of San Francisco

  52. Bianca Nepales, Director, TFA

  53. Bill Hing, University of San Francisco school of law

  54. Billy Hsu, University of Pennsylvania

  55. Brant Lee, Professor of Law, University of Akron School of Law”

  56. Brenda Dao, Program Manager and University of Washington, Bothell

  57. Brian Arao, College Administrative Officer, UC Santa Cruz

  58. Brittany Chen, Director, Health Resources in Action; Guest lecturer, Boston University

  59. Aujean Lee, PhD Candidate, UCLA

  60. Le, Director, Asian & Asian American Studies Certificate Program, UMass Amherst

  61. Cam Nguyen, University of California, Irvine

  62. Camille Pannu, Clinical Director, UC Davis School of Law

  63. Camillia Lui, Associate Scientist

  64. Candace Chow, Postdoc, University of Utah

  65. Caroline Hong, Assistant Professor, Queens College CUNY

  66. Charlene Martinez, Associate Director, Oregon State University

  67. Charles Andrean, Northwestern University, Assistant Director of Fraternity and Sorority Life

  68. Charles Lu, Executive Director – University of Texas at Austin

  69. Charles Sasaki, Dean of Academic Affairs

  70. Charmaine Banther, Chair, NEA Asian & Pacific Islander Caucus

  71. Charmaine Runes, Research Assistant, The Urban Institute

  72. chee ia yang, Program Manager, University of Michigan

  73. Chenda Duong, English Teacher at Lago Vista High School (Texas)

  74. Cherry Lim, Asian American Student Advancement Program Specialist, Middlesex Community College

  75. Chhoun Mey, Instructional Technology Curriculum Leader/Bellevue School District

  76. Chris Haynes, Assistant Professor, New Haven

  77. Chrissy Lau, Assistant Professor, Texas A&M University – Corpus Christi

  78. Christina Carpio, Assistant Director, Asian American Cultural Center, University of Illinois Urbana Champaign

  79. Christina Yao, Assistant Professor, University of Nebraska-Lincoln

  80. Chu Huang, Co-Chair of the Chinatown Resident Association (Boston, MA)

  81. Chu Ly, Boston University

  82. Claire Jean Kim, University of California, Irvine

  83. Cleda Wang, Assistant Director for Residence Life at University of Wisconsin -Madison

  84. Clement Lai, Associate Professor, California State University – Northridge

  85. Corey Gin, Director, California State University East Bay, Staff Co-Chair, Asian Pacific Islander Faculty and Staff Association

  86. Corinne Kodama, AANAPISI Research Specialist, University of Illinois at Chicago

  87. Curtiss Rooks, Loyola Marymount University

  88. Cynya Michelle Ko, Independent

  89. Dan Ocampo, Director of Residential Life/Visiting Assistant Professor

  90. Danny Khuu, Associate, Solano County Library

  91. Daren Mooko, Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students, Whitman College

  92. David Kyuman Kim, Professor, Connecticut College

  93. David Pe, Associate Dean of Students / NYU Shanghai

  94. David Roh, Associate Professor, University of Utah

  95. David Song, Stanford University

  96. David Surratt, Associate Vice Chancellor – University of California, Berkeley

  97. Dawn Lee Tu, Interim Associate Dean of Students, UC Berkeley

  98. Dean Choi, Former Program Coordinator for Campus Life, Diverse Communities at Washington University in St. Louis

  99. Debra Arellano, Academic Support, Honolulu Community College

  100. Debra Pacio, Master’s of Arts in Education Student, Stanford University

  101. Delia Cheung Hom, Director, Asian American Center, Northeastern University

  102. Demeturie Gogue, First Generation Student Programs Coordinator; University of Redlands

  103. Denise Yee, Student Services Advisor, University of California Berkeley

  104. Der Vang, Iowa State University

  105. Derek Furukawa, Assistant Vice Provost, University of Nevada, Reno

  106. Desmond Leung, Adjunct Lecturer, Baruch College

  107. Devita Bishundat, Assistant Director, Center for Multicultural Equity & Access; Georgetown University

  108. Dian Squire, Iowa state university

  109. Diana Pan, Assistant Professor, Brooklyn College

  110. Dimpal Jain, Associate Professor, California State University, Northridge

  111. Dina Maramba, Associate Professor of Higher Education, Claremont Graduate University

  112. Dina Okamoto, Professor of Sociology, Indiana University

  113. DJ Kuttin Kandi Custodio-Tan, Artist-Activist, Scholar

  114. Dominic Wang, Lecturer, Stanford University

  115. Donald Kimura, Teacher, Clark County School District

  116. Douglas Lee, Assistant Director, Student Leadership & Involvement at the University of Utah Asia Campus

  117. Ducha Hang, Assistant Vice President for Student Affairs, Salve Regina University

  118. Ed Curammeng, Assistant Professor of Teacher Education, California State University, Dominguez Hills

  119. Edward Chang, Professor, UC Riverside

  120. Edward Chi, University of Southern California

  121. Edward Hashima, Professor and Director of Center for Teaching and Learning

  122. Elaine Dolalas, Student Affairs Officer, University of California, Los Angeles

  123. Elizabeth Park, University of Southern California

  124. Elizabeth Pili, Director of College Counseling Initiatives, Horace Mann School

  125. Ellen Wang, Program Officer, Nellie Mae Education Foundation

  126. Elvin Chan, Assistant Director, Asian American Resource and Cultural Center, The University of Illinois at Chicago

  127. Emily Roh, Cross Cultural Coordinator, Pasadena City College

  128. Emy Cardoza, Assistant Dean of Student Life, Barnard College

  129. Eric Mar, Asst Professor, College of Ethnic Studies/San Francisco State University

  130. Eric Tang, Associate Professor, The University of Texas at Austin

  131. Erica Yamamura, Seattle University, Student Development Administration, College of Education

  132. Erick Nunez, UNIS

  133. Erin Hashimoto Martell, Director of Instruction, Dearborn STEM Academy, Boston

  134. erin K Ninh, Associate Professor, UC Santa Barbara

  135. Ester Sihite, PhD Candidate, Loyola University Chicago

  136. Eugene Lim, librarian, CUNY

  137. Eugenia Beh, Librarian, MIT

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作者:一草 回复 西北角 留言时间:2017-08-17 17:02:01

谢谢你的支持和分享切身感受。

回复 | 0
作者:西北角 留言时间:2017-08-17 15:20:17

最早时,美国医学院只接受白人(非拉丁裔,非犹太裔),,后来慢慢接受了犹太人,,再以后亚裔才慢慢多起来。。。现在亚裔在医学院录取的比例已经大大超过亚裔在美国人口中的比例,,这就是亚裔的好学生从平权法案得到的好处。。女儿这一代华裔都懂得这个道理。。。

回复 | 0
作者:西北角 留言时间:2017-08-17 15:08:37

支持作者观点。。说到教育,,我家也是很重视教育,女儿是名校毕业上的医学院,现在是医生。。女儿的黑人同学,的确是在分数相同情况下,比亚裔更容易被医学院录取。。但是我和女儿都认为这是合理的。。。即使黑人学生进入医学院时得到分数上的优待,现实生活中,黑人人口中的医生比例大大的低于美国平均水平,更是大大低于亚裔。。在我看来,每个族裔都回比较喜欢找同一族裔的医生看病,,我自己在找不到华裔医生时,会优先考虑找韩裔日裔等等。。黑人也是一样,所以培养出足够多的黑人医生对黑人群体有好处,对整个美国社会也有好处。。。

回复 | 0
作者:一草 回复 muzzy 留言时间:2017-08-16 05:32:38

这话若不是你嫉妒泛酸,就是你以小人之心度他人之腹了。

若真是在有“大学招生歧视亚裔的政策”下“自己的子女上了名校了”,那必是在育儿上有过人的智慧和心胸。有何可能会在与自家无利益冲突下,“希望别人的子女都上不了名校”呢?

回复 | 0
作者:muzzy 留言时间:2017-08-15 15:22:24

有些华人自己的子女上了名校了,就希望别人的子女都上不了名校,所以大力支持大学招生歧视亚裔的政策。

回复 | 1
作者:wc73 留言时间:2017-08-15 13:39:56

某些人靠补习班让孩子获得个“好”成绩,以为这就是一切。

这种思路已经让中国的“名校”充满了庸才,出了国的又想让美国的名校也如此。

回复 | 1
作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-14 14:24:45

说说看,你那“公开、可衡量、可监督的录取标准”有哪些实际可行的“计划和步骤”?

回复 | 0
作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-13 18:19:54

你是否先搞清,所稀罕的名校中有几所真受了平权政策所规所限?你所指的平权政策与名私校的多元多样化录取如何切割?再来聊你所谓的废除平权政策是否靠谱?

回复 | 0
作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-13 16:15:11

不是你说的“没谱”,而是谋事要有计划和步骤。

废除平权政策不仅可能,而且已经有先例:加州已经行之有效多年了。而且,亚裔已经实实在在从中得到益处。

在全美最左倾的加州都已经做到,你为什么还说是“行不通”?

回复 | 0
作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-13 16:09:59

这位喜欢讲脏话的大概是从中国翻墙出来的五毛,连什么是平权政策都好像没搞懂。不要跟他浪费时间。

回复 | 0
作者:一草 回复 sxymboy 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:34:49

有理好好说话,乏理滥骂自咒。

请“你这些迂腐的蠢货们”,哪来“滚回”哪儿,“啃”你偏好的“剩骨头去”。

回复 | 0
作者:一草 回复 sxymboy 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:25:10

你说的不正是重复那文中所叙述?

你是在用滥骂表明你理亏气短?

回复 | 1
作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:24:28

呵呵,“别的慢慢来,首先要去掉平权政策”,您老这也要搞无替代废除?到现在还不明白这类招数行不通?

你对你自个儿说的“公开、可衡量、可监督的录取标准”,好像没什么谱啊?这大概就叫空头话容易、来点实的难?

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作者:sxymboy 回复 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:23:48

一点也不是。白人被分五类,而亚裔却被分了十几类近二十类,这叫公平吗?要分就分个彻底。欧洲四十几个国家我都去过。至少白人该分四十几类。我骂又怎么啦?白人骂了几百年了,非但没见它们“理亏气短”,反而得寸进尺。什么东西,都是你这些迂腐的蠢货们,陷入了白人们制定的“规则”,不能自拔。跟白人们一起滚回欧洲,啃它们的剩骨头去。

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作者:sxymboy 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:11:18

不应去掉盘平权法案。应把亚裔加入平权法案。要细分,大家都细分。小小一个英国,踢足球世界杯时,它不就自愿分为英格兰,苏格兰,北爱尔兰,威尔士四个队?有好处时争着抢着分,不然就把憋足了的坏水儿冒出来分别人?

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作者:sxymboy 回复 一草 留言时间:2017-08-13 00:03:34

第一张表里,白人只被分了五类,而最后一类还是另类。貌似只是用来歧视老毛子,二毛子等东欧朋友的。第二张表里,就漏了,白人压根儿没被分,只有一类,“白人”。凭什么,白人有不被分割的特权?我去。。白猪仔,你们还想把非白人像过去几百年当猪蒙,当狗使唤,当鸡操?

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 23:26:08

别的慢慢来,首先要去掉平权政策。

顺着你的话来看:一部分华人可能确有过分重视应试的毛病。难道西裔和非裔就没有毛病了吗?他们的毛病可能更多、更大。

为什么华人要因部分人有这样的毛病,就被剥夺公平的机会;而西裔和非裔却因为他们更多的毛病而占有别人的机会?

按照民主党的平权政策,即使所有华裔都克服了自身的毛病,他们却已经没有公平的竞争机会了。反之,非裔和西裔无需克服他们自身的任何毛病,却已经得到了原本不属于自己的机会。这只会造成社会不公,并鼓励后继和肮脏的政治。

按照共和党的公平竞争政策,华裔和西裔,以及非裔,大家都要克服自身的毛病。而且,不付出努力克服自己毛病的,不要想投机占便宜;克服了自己毛病的,会欣然拥有公平竞争的机会。这样岂不是鼓励整个社会积极向上、向善吗?

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 22:38:29

要是名校真以应试成绩和那不怎么上得了台面的“捐钱买学位”,作为你所指的“公开、可衡量、可监督的录取标准”,它们还会是如今真有较高质量的名校?还会是包括你孩子在内的不少华二代所向往的受教育之地吗?

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 22:16:10

说说看,你所谓的“公开、可衡量、可监督的录取标准”,除了应试教育那套,还有些什么?

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 22:12:05

去掉Legacy的关键在于:尽量减少主观、不可衡量、不公平的指标。实行公开、可衡量、可监督的录取标准。即便是捐钱买学位,把标准亮出来。

当然,平权政策首先要去掉。因肤色来决定一个孩子的教育机会,实在不公平!

加州去掉平权政策后(尽管不是完全去掉,实际操作是还有),亚裔明显受益:UC系统亚裔录取率接近40%。如果其他州的名校也能稍微往这靠一靠,别说40%,有个30%的话,问题就得到极大缓解;因为亚裔总人数毕竟有限。

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:59:02

问问你自己,你的话里有哪句不是老调重弹?

一华二代孩子说,“有本事去争取取消校友,家族,名人孩子的特权,一视同仁,都按成绩和各方面表现来。真正占名额多的是这些,其它少数族裔占名校的录取人数远低他们的人口比例,也低于亚裔,亚裔按人口是远超了录取比例了。要真公平,就去要求取消Legacy。再按学业和其他方面录取,才会对咱们亚裔第二代孩子有利。”

对照一下你那点应试教育思维,您老相形见惭吗?

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:59:00

我们关注的是:华人又没有得到公平的机会和权利。

你关注的是:华人有过于重视应试成绩的毛病。

我承认,有些华人(不是所有华人)是有这方面的毛病。但是,他们有毛病,应该帮他们克服;却不应该剥夺他们的权利。如果他们没有公平的机会,即使他们克服了自身毛病,仍然得不到自己应有的权利。

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:46:53

不要再弹老调了!

许多华人子弟不光成绩好,其他方面也很全面发展,却得不到公平的机会。

前段时间有个黑人女孩得到诸多常春藤录取通知,报纸不敢报道其成绩,唯一“过硬”的表现是:幼儿园时演讲得过奖。这算怎么回事?

美国大学其实是用一些主观、不能衡量的标准,玩弄政治,剥夺华人子弟应有的公平和权利。

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:44:15

你像是读不懂“在上大学之能中,成绩只是一部分”?

没错,“为什么接受顶尖教育的人才却可以马虎?” 马虎的不正是你那应试教育思维?

说你自己“本末倒置”不算为过。

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作者:旁观者未必清 回复 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:29:43

你忘了,接受顶尖大学教育的也是一小部分。

如果竞技娱乐都要那么较真。为什么接受顶尖教育的人才却可以马虎?你好像本末倒置了!

如果你或你至亲的人生病,你愿意找个靠平权政策勉强当医生的,还是要找真正技术过硬的好医生?

我来美可能比你久;对美国大学招生的内幕比你更了解。你讲的那些是表面的,用来哄人的。背后的东西关乎人际、金钱和政治......

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:27:57

你这是在给你的片面和什么叫以偏概全而举例吧?

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:21:48

你这些话的片面显而易见。

比赛的目的是竞技/娱乐,以赢为乐,一切围绕着赢。参与的只能是小部分竞技/娱乐方面的能者。

教育/受教育的目的目标可要大得多了,涉及全民。在上大学之能中,成绩只是一部分。

来美多久了?怎么还脱不出那点应试教育思维呢?

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 21:10:54

跟你讲一个真实的故事:

一个生产军工产品的公司;其中有一个黑人和华人在同一个部门。一天,黑人有事情华人带班。华人知道这个黑人能力差、又懒惰,非常难搞;所以带班的时候尽量磨洋工,一个小时只完成7件产品。后来,黑人回来,大怒:怪华人做太多了!原来,该黑人一个小时只做2件。

后来,黑人又要人带班。这次替他的是一位新来的年轻人。年轻人可能新来乍到,不知行情;也可能根本就不怕谁(他是老板的亲戚)。他结果一个小时做了120件产品!!!

这个黑人就典型的民主党党徒:爱搞工会闹事。

这件事告诉我们,民主党的平权政策实在是有害的!

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 20:54:38

为什么NBA、NFL不实行平权政策?

如果NBA、NFL业实行平权政策,会怎么样?水平会大倒退,没有观众要这样!

不能因为你是亚裔和欧裔,就要照顾你进NBA。想玩篮球,自己可以找人玩,没人限制你。只是,如果要进NBA,还是得靠实力,不能凭肤色要求照顾。

同理,成绩不好,却想读大学,可以去社区大学;不该因为肤色就让成绩差的挤掉成绩好的学位。这对国家社会有害无益!

一个公平的社会还是应该各尽所能。

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作者:一草 回复 旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 20:54:26

的确,你这些话“非常片面。不要在这里用片面的之词继续欺骗华裔!”

请自省

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 20:44:50

美国的社会道德及自由市场机制支持的是公平的法则和竞争。

许多西裔和非裔中产及富人子弟,贪玩不好学习,却凭借肤色进入好大学。其中的许多人还不能完成学业,浪费社会资源。

这公平吗?这样做对国家和社会有益吗?

这些西裔和非裔富人子弟有优越的学习条件,为什么仅凭肤色要得到额外的照顾?额外的照顾只会使他们更懒惰,更无能;也造成更多的社会不公。只有公平一致的竞争标准,才会迫使他们努力学习;这对他们是有好处的;对整体社会更是有益的!

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作者:旁观者未必清 留言时间:2017-08-12 20:34:11

非常片面。不要在这里用片面的之词继续欺骗华裔!

平权法案也根本不是照顾穷人;而是找借口让西裔和非裔中产及富人子弟占便宜。这完全是民主党的党派利益(为了选票拉拢非裔和西裔)。

共和党一贯主张公平竞争(虽不完美),这当然对勤奋学习的华人子弟有益。川普的主张对美国大大有益。

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作者:一草 回复 sxymboy 留言时间:2017-08-12 18:52:03

『从报告中几个细分案例分析看,教育部常规获取数据的几大族群都有细分的数据收集案例。 从下面展示的波特兰公立学区的种族细分问卷和华盛顿州族裔分类内容可以了解到其他族裔精细分类的情况。 比如,白人中单独列出乌克兰,俄罗斯,罗马尼亚,以及其他欧洲国家等选项,拉丁裔列出加勒比海, 中美洲,南美洲, 土著墨西哥等不同的分类, 等等。

此外,明尼苏达2016年通过的《所有孩子都算数(All Kids Count Act)》、教育法案SF2597以及州预算补充法案也准许分别收集7个亚裔种族、3个印第安种族、7个西裔种族、5个非裔种族的细分的数据。2016年3月,华盛顿州 HB1541法案第5部分,在教育部2007年规定的原有的7个族群分类的基础上对教育数据进一步细分,除了亚裔,对白人中的东欧移民、非裔中的本土和非洲移民也进行了细分。』

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作者:一草 回复 sxymboy 留言时间:2017-08-12 18:48:58

可参考《亚裔细分调查报告》

http://blog.creaders.net/user_blog_diary.php?did=Mjk4MjMw

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作者:sxymboy 留言时间:2017-08-12 01:04:43

站不住脚。问题是为什么不细分欧裔,非裔,南美裔,唯独细分亚裔。“好处”还能让亚裔独,站了不成?

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