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文章评论 |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-30 15:15:23 |
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（先向一草博致歉和致谢，借用贵宝地多多！） gmuoruo兄，交换至此，我想我们可以“Agree to disagree”。 Dan Rather 被CBS逼辞固然是“铁板钉钉”的历史事实，但却一丁点儿不能说明究竟内幕如何。“替罪羊”或“舍车保帅”是历史上永远的戏目。 Killian documents虽然被证实是伪造的，这是否是个设局并没有被任何人肯定或否定。尽管如此，文件所提出的小布希在National Guard受到一些特殊对待，例如未完成训练要求等等，现在都证明是“铁板钉钉”事实存在的，我就在这里再引一次的： Bush had completed five years, four months, and five days toward his six-year service obligation.In September 2004, Lawrence Korb, an Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan, after reviewing the payroll records for Bush's last two years of service, concluded that they indicated that Bush did not fulfill his obligations and could have been ordered to active duty as a result. 至于是不是Dan Rather 未经查证就报道，请看下面的段落： CBS investigations prior to airing the segment[edit]Mapes and her colleagues began interviewing people who might be able to corroborate the information in the documents, while also retaining four forensic document experts, Marcel J. Matley, James J. Pierce, Emily Will, and Linda James, to determine the validity of the memos.On September 5, CBS interviewed Killian's friend Robert Strong, who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office. Among other issues covered in his interview with Rather and Mapes, Strong was asked if he thought the documents were genuine. Strong stated, "they are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being."[37] Strong had first seen the documents twenty minutes earlier and also said he had no personal knowledge of their content;[38] he later claimed he had been told to assume the content of the documents was accurate.[39]On September 6, CBS interviewed General Robert "Bobby" Hodges, a former officer at the Texas Air National Guard and Killian's immediate superior at the time. Hodges declined CBS' request for an on-camera interview, and Mapes read the documents to him over the telephone. According to Mapes, Hodges agreed with CBS's assessment that the documents were real, and CBS reported that Hodges stated that these were "the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."[40] However, according to Hodges, when Mapes read portions of the memos to him he simply stated, "well if he wrote them, that's what he felt," and he claims he never confirmed the validity of the content of the documents. General Hodges later asserted to the investigatory panel that he told Mapes that Killian had never, to his knowledge, ordered anyone to take a physical and that he had never been pressured regarding Lieutenant Bush, as the documents alleged.[41] Hodges also claims that when CBS interviewed him, he thought the memos were handwritten, not typed,[42] and following the September 8 broadcast, when Hodges had seen the documents and heard of claims of forgery by Killian's wife and son, he was "convinced they were not authentic" and told Rather and Mapes on September 10.[43] Dan Rather在CBS前后共43年包括24年CBS Evening News 主播，多次获 Emmy Awards， Peabody Awards, 和若干大学荣誉学位，如果他真是不称职的，恐怕连2年4个月也做不下来！ 对重要事件的报道是媒体人义不容辞的责任，不能因为报道可能对某一政党或公职人员有负面影响就认为是故意跟他们过不去甚至恶意攻击。例如Dan Rather对Abu Ghraib的非法非人道的酷刑的报道就不能说是跟小布希过不去吧？ |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-30 15:15:06 |
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（先向一草博致歉和致谢，借用贵宝地多多！） gmuoruo兄，交换至此，我想我们可以“Agree to disagree”。 Dan Rather 被CBS逼辞固然是“铁板钉钉”的历史事实，但却一丁点儿不能说明究竟内幕如何。“替罪羊”或“舍车保帅”是历史上永远的戏目。 Killian documents虽然被证实是伪造的，这是否是个设局并没有被任何人肯定或否定。尽管如此，文件所提出的小布希在National Guard受到一些特殊对待，例如未完成训练要求等等，现在都证明是“铁板钉钉”事实存在的，我就在这里再引一次的： Bush had completed five years, four months, and five days toward his six-year service obligation.In September 2004, Lawrence Korb, an Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan, after reviewing the payroll records for Bush's last two years of service, concluded that they indicated that Bush did not fulfill his obligations and could have been ordered to active duty as a result. 至于是不是Dan Rather 未经查证就报道，请看下面的段落： CBS investigations prior to airing the segment[edit]Mapes and her colleagues began interviewing people who might be able to corroborate the information in the documents, while also retaining four forensic document experts, Marcel J. Matley, James J. Pierce, Emily Will, and Linda James, to determine the validity of the memos.On September 5, CBS interviewed Killian's friend Robert Strong, who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office. Among other issues covered in his interview with Rather and Mapes, Strong was asked if he thought the documents were genuine. Strong stated, "they are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being."[37] Strong had first seen the documents twenty minutes earlier and also said he had no personal knowledge of their content;[38] he later claimed he had been told to assume the content of the documents was accurate.[39]On September 6, CBS interviewed General Robert "Bobby" Hodges, a former officer at the Texas Air National Guard and Killian's immediate superior at the time. Hodges declined CBS' request for an on-camera interview, and Mapes read the documents to him over the telephone. According to Mapes, Hodges agreed with CBS's assessment that the documents were real, and CBS reported that Hodges stated that these were "the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."[40] However, according to Hodges, when Mapes read portions of the memos to him he simply stated, "well if he wrote them, that's what he felt," and he claims he never confirmed the validity of the content of the documents. General Hodges later asserted to the investigatory panel that he told Mapes that Killian had never, to his knowledge, ordered anyone to take a physical and that he had never been pressured regarding Lieutenant Bush, as the documents alleged.[41] Hodges also claims that when CBS interviewed him, he thought the memos were handwritten, not typed,[42] and following the September 8 broadcast, when Hodges had seen the documents and heard of claims of forgery by Killian's wife and son, he was "convinced they were not authentic" and told Rather and Mapes on September 10.[43] Dan Rather在CBS前后共43年包括24年CBS Evening News 主播，多次获 Emmy Awards， Peabody Awards, 和若干大学荣誉学位，如果他真是不称职的，恐怕连2年4个月也做不下来！ 对重要事件的报道是媒体人义不容辞的责任，不能因为报道可能对某一政党或公职人员有负面影响就认为是故意跟他们过不去甚至恶意攻击。例如Dan Rather对Abu Ghraib的非法非人道的酷刑的报道就不能说是跟小布希过不去吧？ |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-30 15:11:08 |
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（先向一草博致歉和致谢，借用贵宝地多多！） gmuoruo兄，交换至此，我想我们可以“Agree to disagree”。 Dan Rather 被CBS逼辞固然是“铁板钉钉”的历史事实，但却一丁点儿不能说明究竟内幕如何。“替罪羊”或“舍车保帅”是历史上永远的戏目。 Killian documents虽然被证实是伪造的，这是否是个设局并没有被任何人肯定或否定。尽管如此，文件所提出的小布希在National Guard受到一些特殊对待，例如未完成训练要求等等，现在都证明是“铁板钉钉”事实存在的，我就在这里再引一次的： Bush had completed five years, four months, and five days toward his six-year service obligation.In September 2004, Lawrence Korb, an Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan, after reviewing the payroll records for Bush's last two years of service, concluded that they indicated that Bush did not fulfill his obligations and could have been ordered to active duty as a result. 至于是不是Dan Rather 未经查证就报道，请看下面的段落： CBS investigations prior to airing the segment[edit]Mapes and her colleagues began interviewing people who might be able to corroborate the information in the documents, while also retaining four forensic document experts, Marcel J. Matley, James J. Pierce, Emily Will, and Linda James, to determine the validity of the memos.On September 5, CBS interviewed Killian's friend Robert Strong, who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office. Among other issues covered in his interview with Rather and Mapes, Strong was asked if he thought the documents were genuine. Strong stated, "they are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being."[37] Strong had first seen the documents twenty minutes earlier and also said he had no personal knowledge of their content;[38] he later claimed he had been told to assume the content of the documents was accurate.[39]On September 6, CBS interviewed General Robert "Bobby" Hodges, a former officer at the Texas Air National Guard and Killian's immediate superior at the time. Hodges declined CBS' request for an on-camera interview, and Mapes read the documents to him over the telephone. According to Mapes, Hodges agreed with CBS's assessment that the documents were real, and CBS reported that Hodges stated that these were "the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."[40] However, according to Hodges, when Mapes read portions of the memos to him he simply stated, "well if he wrote them, that's what he felt," and he claims he never confirmed the validity of the content of the documents. General Hodges later asserted to the investigatory panel that he told Mapes that Killian had never, to his knowledge, ordered anyone to take a physical and that he had never been pressured regarding Lieutenant Bush, as the documents alleged.[41] Hodges also claims that when CBS interviewed him, he thought the memos were handwritten, not typed,[42] and following the September 8 broadcast, when Hodges had seen the documents and heard of claims of forgery by Killian's wife and son, he was "convinced they were not authentic" and told Rather and Mapes on September 10.[43] Dan Rather在CBS前后共43年包括24年CBS Evening News 主播，多次获 Emmy Awards， Peabody Awards, 和若干大学荣誉学位，如果他真是不称职的，恐怕连2年4个月也做不下来！ 对重要事件的报道是媒体人义不容辞的责任，不能因为报道可能对某一政党或公职人员有负面影响就认为是故意跟他们过不去甚至恶意攻击。例如Dan Rather对Abu Ghraib的非法非人道的酷刑的报道就不能说是跟小布希过不去吧？ |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-30 14:56:09 |
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（先向一草博致歉和致谢，借用贵宝地多多！） gmuoruo兄，交换至此，我想我们可以“Agree to disagree”。 Dan Rather 被CBS逼辞固然是“铁板钉钉”的历史事实，但却一丁点儿不能说明究竟内幕如何。“替罪羊”或“舍车保帅”是历史上永远的戏目。 Killian documents虽然被证实是伪造的，这是否是个设局并没有被任何人肯定或否定。尽管如此，文件所提出的小布希在National Guard受到一些特殊对待，例如未完成训练要求等等，现在都证明是“铁板钉钉”事实存在的，我就在这里再引一次的： Bush had completed five years, four months, and five days toward his six-year service obligation.In September 2004, Lawrence Korb, an Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan, after reviewing the payroll records for Bush's last two years of service, concluded that they indicated that Bush did not fulfill his obligations and could have been ordered to active duty as a result. 至于是不是Dan Rather 未经查证就报道，请看下面的段落： CBS investigations prior to airing the segment[edit]Mapes and her colleagues began interviewing people who might be able to corroborate the information in the documents, while also retaining four forensic document experts, Marcel J. Matley, James J. Pierce, Emily Will, and Linda James, to determine the validity of the memos.On September 5, CBS interviewed Killian's friend Robert Strong, who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office. Among other issues covered in his interview with Rather and Mapes, Strong was asked if he thought the documents were genuine. Strong stated, "they are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being."[37] Strong had first seen the documents twenty minutes earlier and also said he had no personal knowledge of their content;[38] he later claimed he had been told to assume the content of the documents was accurate.[39]On September 6, CBS interviewed General Robert "Bobby" Hodges, a former officer at the Texas Air National Guard and Killian's immediate superior at the time. Hodges declined CBS' request for an on-camera interview, and Mapes read the documents to him over the telephone. According to Mapes, Hodges agreed with CBS's assessment that the documents were real, and CBS reported that Hodges stated that these were "the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."[40] However, according to Hodges, when Mapes read portions of the memos to him he simply stated, "well if he wrote them, that's what he felt," and he claims he never confirmed the validity of the content of the documents. General Hodges later asserted to the investigatory panel that he told Mapes that Killian had never, to his knowledge, ordered anyone to take a physical and that he had never been pressured regarding Lieutenant Bush, as the documents alleged.[41] Hodges also claims that when CBS interviewed him, he thought the memos were handwritten, not typed,[42] and following the September 8 broadcast, when Hodges had seen the documents and heard of claims of forgery by Killian's wife and son, he was "convinced they were not authentic" and told Rather and Mapes on September 10.[43] Dan Rather在CBS前后共43年包括24年CBS Evening News 主播，多次获 Emmy Awards， Peabody Awards, 和若干大学荣誉学位，如果他真是不称职的，恐怕连2年4个月也做不下来！ 对重要事件的报道是媒体人义不容辞的责任，不能因为报道可能对某一政党或公职人员有负面影响就认为是故意跟他们过不去甚至恶意攻击。例如Dan Rather对Abu Ghraib的非法非人道的酷刑的报道就不能说是跟小布希过不去吧？ |
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作者：gmuoruo 回复 求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-26 00:33:43 |
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求真知 博，Dan Rather CBS逼辞职，这是铁板定丁的历史，我的记忆在这个要点上完全无误，但你都还要求我来“提供确凿的证据证明他要负多大的责任“，我怎有办法让人“心服口服”？本文拿 Dan Rather 当权威，但却故意漏掉这件最重要的事，我提醒一下读者就够了。 既然做不到 100% 准确，为何还要把 CBS 的“信用”消费在小布什年轻时代的极毛蒜皮的小事上？小布在 2000 年就已当总统，美国人对他年轻时的事已做判断，Dan Rather 为何四年之后还要穷追不舍？结合 Dan Rather 采访老布什时违背事先约定而突然袭击的事，我说他“更是和布什家有私仇的样子”的推测很合理的。如同推论 CBS，CNN，纽约时报是左媒一样，CBS 从不承认，但明眼人谁不知道？ 最后，不管是否反越战，2004 年时小布什的政绩如何，媒体都不应该像共党宣传部那样来编故事，搞臭人的方法来“指导”民众。 以“为了美国和世界的好”当理由来做新闻媒体是极权国家的思维。在自由社会，新闻的职业道德本该是客观报道事件，而非当政委来指导民众。 |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-25 13:53:03 |
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gmuoruo兄， 既然要人心服口服，就应该言出有据，少凭记忆或推想，特别是举手之劳就查得到的事件。您说对不对？ 媒体虽然要求公证，事实上谁也做不到100%。您提的这几件事，比如：“Dan Rather 更是和布什家有私仇的样子”，更像是个人推想。 至于“Dan Rather 本人的责任”，如果您能提供确凿的证据证明他要负多大的责任，愿拜读。 反越战，不应该肯定吗？小布希的政绩还有争议吗？CBS在这些事件上如果说有倾向，难道不是为了美国和世界的好吗？ |
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作者：gmuoruo 回复 求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-25 13:18:41 |
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求真知博，事发的具体时间我是凭记忆，显然比我记得的更早，但当时的效果是媒体的注意力一下子都转向小布年轻时的往事， Kerry 的气势大涨。 至于Dan Rather 本人的责任，他是CBS新闻部的领军人物，没有他的热心，底下谁会乱来？这也是为什么事发后他也逼辞职的原因。 你若多了解 CBS 和 Dan Rather 的历史，就知道 CBS 一直是左媒晚间新闻的旗手。Walter Cronkite 的反越战 agenda 对美国在越战时败共产革命有过重大贡献，而 Dan Rather 更是和布什家有私仇的样子，曾在晚间新闻时段采访老布什时违反事先约定，公开他难堪。而小布什的事到了 2004 年早是旧闻，鸡毛蒜皮的事，他还当着党争武器追着不放。 而那些文件的真假极易判断：是用 Microsoft Word 打印出来的。但Rather 虽逼辞，但还是不肯承认文件是伪造的，由此可见他的政治立场对他的新闻职业道德伤害有多深。 |
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作者：公孙明 |
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留言时间：2016-11-25 09:53:36 |
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民主党过去一二十年间受到幕后操控集团的摆布，用公器购买黑西裔选票进行愚民以夺取政权，胡作非为，彻底变质，才是右派抬头的关键。 |
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“政治正确”这词，自出现到目前为止，有其特定含义。尚不适于作“全靠人们的理解和定义。一个时代有一个时代的“政治正确””这样的扩展，会造成讨论中的概念混乱。 若用“一个时代有一个时代的‘政治正确’”，则须加上“当今时代”、“六十年代”、或“八十年代”的“政治正确”，现还无必要特意引向这样的累赘吧。 |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 23:15:20 |
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回gmuoruo兄： 您不会以为Dan Rather 自己一个人准备这个报道吧？CBS这么大个主要电视台，Dan Rather 这个担纲主角，没有一个团队在幕后是不可想象的。怎么应该是Dan Rather一人担全部责任？ The man who delivered the copies, Lt. Col. Bill Burkett, a former officer in the Texas Army National Guard and outspoken Bush critic, claimed that he burned the originals. Burkett admitted lying to CBS and USA Today about where he had obtained the papers and eventually expressed doubts of his own about their authenticity. CBS播出这条新闻是September 8, 2004，大选是在11月份，这哪里是您说的：“他急忙忙地在大选前几天向全美国公告”？而且在九月20日，CBS就公开承认所报有误，正如有担当的媒体应该做的，离大选还有一个多月！ CBS and Dan Rather initially defended the documents and the report,[63] but on September 20, 2004 less than two months before Election Day, CBS News stated that it had been "misled" and that it could not authenticate the documents and should not have used them. |
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作者：gmuoruo 回复 求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 19:48:55 |
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当然不是他本人制造的，但是他急忙忙地在大选前几天向全美国公告。他骗了没错，但如果不是他愿意被骗，那么低级的假文件能骗谁？ |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 19:38:39 |
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回gmuoruo兄： 已经说了，不是他捏造的，也给了连接。您可以移步去看一下吗？ |
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作者：gugeren |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 19:37:49 |
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那位神经外科医生、共和党候选人之一Ben Carson被川普任命为住房部部长。他明显是有色人种的后裔： http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/ben-carson-may-be-the-perfect-trump-hud-secretary.html 另外，川普还任命了2位女部长。 |
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作者：gmuoruo 回复 求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 19:32:53 |
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小布什的Air National Guard的服务文件至今找不全，所以 Dan Rather 就帮忙制造一些在选前几天公布？纽约时报大概是从他那学来的，选前找人来指控川普在头等舱性侵女人。 民主社会该害怕的不是川普，而是丧失职业道德的媒体。 |
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作者：求真知 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 19:05:57 |
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Dan Rather 是公认的最杰出的新闻人之一，不是一天两天，而是24年！（如果不计被迫提早退休）。 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather 所谓的 Killian documents事件，根本不是Dan Rather捏造的，是否被设计争论至今。如果说对当年的事件不熟悉，随手都可以查到。 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy 小Bush在Air National Guard的服务文件记录至今找不全。不少他自己说参加过的训练被证明不实。 Bush had completed five years, four months, and five days toward his six-year service obligation. In September 2004, Lawrence Korb, an Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan, after reviewing the payroll records for Bush's last two years of service, concluded that they indicated that Bush did not fulfill his obligations and could have been ordered to active duty as a result. |
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自己的一些想法： 1】那时（《人权法案》公布前）种族歧视还盛行时，人们当然不会真地说，种族歧视就是“政治正确”，因为它不符合美国宪法精神和《独立宣言》“人生来平等”；但是那时人们就是认为白人至上、其他少数族裔低等是正常的，是政治上正确的，特别是在那些以前蓄奴的南方州里。 2】什么是“政治正确”？全靠人们的理解和定义。一个时代有一个时代的“政治正确”，可以完全不一样，甚至完全相反。 3】种族歧视不像服装的流行，过一段时间后，不流行的衣服会再重新复出。种族歧视一旦被唾弃，就永远不得翻身了，就像皇权贵族那样，永远被人们抛弃了。可能人们会对某些具体族裔的个人有一些偏见，但不太会对整个族裔或人群都产生歧视的。估计那些年轻人就是发生这样的种族歧视问题吧？他们还没有那么了解这个世界呢。 4】因此，抽象地谈论政治正确，还不如直接谈论反种族歧视，谈论平等、民主、自由，那样还清楚和容易得多。 |
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作者：gmuoruo |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 14:27:25 |
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Dan Rather 的履历一定不能少了 2004 年总统选举前几天造假陷害小布什这最重要的一条，也因此害得 CBS 不得不逼他辞职。 为了政治而丧失职业道德是民主社会最大的危害，也是这次主流左媒被美国选民抛弃的最大原因。 要看看纽约时报的 Jessica Leeds 谎言怎么收场，也许川普宽宏大量，放他们一马？ |
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作者：无云夜空 |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 14:13:33 |
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歧视会被宣传教育或政治正确遏制，但是目前还无法消除，甚至有抬头，倒退也是正常的。歧视的消除有赖于被歧视民族或种族的复兴、贡献、融合等的成功。 |
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谁都知道有过“白人至上、黑人和少数族裔低等”的年代，离现今不过数十年。可那曾被普遍称为政治正确，还是用的其他名称？ |
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“政治正确这词从出现以来，与“平等民主自由思想的宣传和培植”，基本上是在同道上。” 两者不等于的哦！ 理由在下面： “那时的“政治正确”，反倒是白人至上、黑人和少数族裔低等。” 那时，主张“黑白（人）平等”才是异类；白人主张“黑白平等”也要被同侪觉得是叛徒之类的人。 可以找找反映当时情况的电影和书籍看看。 |
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不指望会有什么能“保证种族歧视现象不出现”。 政治正确这词从出现以来，与“平等民主自由思想的宣传和培植”，基本上是在同道上。 |
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“据悉The Southern Poverty Law Center has received reports of over 700 incidents of harassment with over 40% occurring in K-12 and college settings.” 相信，成年人即使有种族优越感，想弄种族歧视那一套，他/她会知道等待他/她的会是什么结果。 这才是这种问题主要发生在年轻人身上的原因吧？年轻人可能还没有考虑得那么远，那么细。 |
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但是，但是，“政治正确”能保证种族歧视现象不出现？ 要保证种族歧视现象不再出现，还是要靠平等民主自由思想的宣传和培植。 证明： 当年马丁路德金他们取得平等权利的胜利，靠得并不是什么“政治正确”。那时的“政治正确”，反倒是白人至上、黑人和少数族裔低等。 |
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难道如今不是反“政治正确”喧嚣尘上？而反种族主义是政治正确的头条。 据悉The Southern Poverty Law Center has received reports of over 700 incidents of harassment with over 40% occurring in K-12 and college settings. 当然我也相信种族主义终难得逞重来。 |
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作者：gugeren |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 09:17:26 |
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当然，像Dan Rather那样对种族主义保持警惕是对的，但是也不需要弄到草木皆兵的程度。 |
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作者：gugeren |
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留言时间：2016-11-24 09:14:42 |
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应该相信，现在已经不是拘禁日裔美国人的时代，不是麦卡锡时代，也不是黑人当年争取平权运动的时代。 绝大多数的现代美国人，从幼儿园起，就接受平等民主自由精神的熏陶。他们视种族主义为怪物，认为种族主义是人类的天敌。 看吧，时间将证明我的这个结论的正确！ |
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