|
|
|
|
|
|
文章评论 |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2008-01-23 07:35:48 |
|
|
|
作者:abc |
|
留言时间:2008-01-02 08:22:52 |
|
|
Chinese are excellent engineers, mathematicians, and professors with Masters and PhDs. But they will be led by an American with a BS. |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-25 19:09:16 |
|
|
Rethink:
Thanks for your feedback! I totally agree that the changes in China's education system will not take places automatically, since it requires some fundamental changes in how we evaluate students and academic performance. If the university admission standards don't change, the over emphasis on the grades and exams won't change. But it is not easy to get rid of the university admission test, because in a society where cheating and corruption is vampant, the university admission test is at least fair and objective to some extent. If it's taken away, and admission is based on teacher recommendations and regular school performances, we can imagine what kind of behaviors will occur in order for students with resources to get into good schools. So it will require a whole structural reform in the entire education system, not just high schools and lower levels. |
|
|
|
作者:rethink |
|
留言时间:2007-12-25 02:18:42 |
|
|
Hi, Zhoa Jun,
Thank ou for your seriously taking my comments. I think wtih your explanation, it is much better for the article's main point now. China's education system is very possible a choice in a no-chlice condition----with huge population, what kind of creteria could be an effective one to measure student's intelligence? And critical thinking needs to be taught and practiced by teachers themselves, but who train these teachers? Overall I think China's education system's weakness can not depend on itself to correct, but depend on the more underground structural factors----the number of universities available to different levels of students, the right ratio of educated population to whole generation...I don't think any good teacher want to teach students to be dumb ones, but it is the institutionalized expectation make them to be the way they are.It just needs more analysis rather than some flat statements. Do you agree? |
|
|
|
作者:昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-24 16:49:41 |
|
|
Rethink:
Thanks for your insights. Please keep in mind that I was not trying to explain the sources of differences in technological/scientific developments in US and China in this article, I was simply pointing out the strengths of US education system as I observe it. I never said that "technological advancement" equals "super good education system" (I did not even comment that US education system was "super good" to begin with), if anything, I was merely pointing out the impact the differences in education approach have on the technological advancement. I'm not a sociologist, but I know that the sources of diffrences in technological and scientific advances are a complex issue, and education is only one piece of it. Maybe I was oversimplying the differences, but I feel like some readers are trying to oversimply what they think I was talking about here, too.
And yes, "some" Chinese high school students are politically sensitive and do pay attention, just like "some" American students here are, but in China probably the proportion of these kinds of students are much lower than here in the states and this kind of critical thinking is not promoted or encouraged by their parents or their schools. As a whole, the Chinese education system does not encourage creativity or critical thinking, and unfortunately, after almost twenty years of the so called "education reform", it stays the same if not worse. |
|
|
|
作者:rethink |
|
留言时间:2007-12-24 01:14:07 |
|
|
Though you emphasized America and China both have their pros and cons in the education system, but overall the impression is leaned to the big advantage of American system and disadvantage of China's system. I think it depends on how deep you think about this complex issue. If you are just living here for several years, it is not surprised that you comment it this way. But after you lived here a while (more than five or seven years), I suppose you shall examine the two systems in two countries in a deeper level especially youself is a professor. It is not Chinese who came to US are exceptionals, those who stay in China also have exceptionals, who came to here also could be averaged ones in terms of creativity. From sociological perspective, it is not too hard to see other mechanisms working to influence educational quality: race, class and gender. Just like one of the reader pointed out wisely, immigrant is the blood of this country's technology and hard labor.
Overall, your article is somehow over-simplifying the two huge system's "differences", I believe today's Chinese high school students are also concerned with political issues----some of them, just like it is "some of them" here.
And does top advanced technology equals a super good education system?thing? |
|
|
|
作者:Connie. |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 21:24:11 |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 20:27:11 |
|
|
Shui Guo Monster:
One more thing I'd like to point out: It's great that you have strong foundations thanks to the Chinese education system (just like many of us here), and kept your curiosity and creativity, but can you honestly say that you are the "average" Chinese students? The fact that you chose to come to the states and have a successful career in engineering here probably says otherwise - just like what I pointed in the article, there's a self selction process and most of the individuals who ended up here are the exceptionals in the Chinese education system and they are not the norm. |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 20:24:12 |
|
|
Shui Guo Monster:
Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. Yes, it's a fact that American students probably don't have as strong a foundation (math skills, etc) as "average" Chinese students (that's why I always pressure my son to not be too content with his 99th percentile performance on the nationally normed math test). Good thing more and more educators are aware of that and are trying to change it (Bill Gates and his wife's foundation is championing some movements towards this direction). But I think saying that the advancement in science and technology in this country is largely due to contributions from foreign students/scholars is an overstatemnt. For one thing, the majority of the faculty members in U.S. universities are still Americans educated here, not overseas, and even if in Sillicon Valley, where people call it IC valley because of all the Indians and Chinese working there, most companies are created by Americans and the important managerial positions are held by Americans. Doesn't this tell something about that the overall skills may be more important?
Plus, the strength of American education system should not just be seen in the fields of science and technology, of course. What I was emphasizing is the focus on general ability - the ability to learn, the ability to ask the right questions, and the ability to explore what you are really interested in.
I have no problem giving my sons extra lessons in math. Just like I said earlier, if we can strike a balance between the Chinese approach and the American way, that'll be a happy place. As a matter of fact, my mom, who's a high school physics teacher, gave both my boys Math Olympics lessons while she was here. It's great challenge to their minds. But, keep in mind that while many Chinese high school students win top places at these Olympics, few of Chinese teams could compete with American teams at the Intel contest, which is an ultimate test of one's ability to solve complex technical problems creatively. |
|
|
|
I like many of your articles. However, I have to disagree with you on this one. You are a professor in the U.S., do you really think average American students are better than average Chinese students? I have taught in college level (EE) for two years and have been an engineer for 3 years. I think the U.S will be in serious trouble as the leader in technology, if without the help of thousands of immigrants engineers and scientists. As far as why those people choose to come to the U.S., that is a more difficult question to answer than simply assume American has better education system.
My son is 4.5 years old and still couldn't do a simple single digit addition yet. Yet, his teachers and many of our friends keep telling us how smart he is. He is, in some way, good reasoning, good memory, very curious, can focus on one thing for a long time. He is also very social and like to make up his own story. However, I still feel it will be a huge problem if he can not do math well. It is like you build a fancy house with a bad foundation - the house will collapse one day.
On the contrary, I grew up in China and had a really strong math skill. But, I still kept my curiosity all these years. So the perception that Chinese students are with good skills but poor curiosity and creativity is not so generalizable. (many of my friends are like me) |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 17:19:54 |
|
|
浪宽:
谢谢你的真知灼见。你指出了美国教育的另外一个很多国家没有的优势,那就是愿 意努力的人总有机会。当然,你说的两个极端也是事实,就像我在文中提到的,我 所看到的大多是中产阶级社区的情况,可能不能代表整个国家各个阶层,你提到的 那些社会问题,可能并不是教育体系本身的问题,而是由社会背景决定的(穷人的社 区因为低收入,没有条件提供好的教育,也不能给孩子们提供安全的环境)。
我一向的观点是,中美两国的教育体系各有优点,就像你最后说的,如果能够相互 结合,那真会是最优质的教育制度。不过这谈何容易呢? |
|
|
|
作者:浪宽 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 16:38:50 |
|
|
我基本同意你的观点。美国教育的核心是多层次、多方面、多管道。这里注重平时积累和学校老师的推荐,而不是象中国那样一考定终身。这里机会很多,错过一次还可以从头再来。我来美国35 才开考医生board,近40 岁才做住院医,也不是最大的。所以,我经常对我的孩子说,在这里,你只要肯学,总会出头。大学进不长春藤也没事,你还可以中途转学,还可以读硕士、博士,有时是机会,不用急于一时。
另一方面,美国的教育正在走向两个极端,好的世界第一,差的连报纸不会读,信不会写,整天玩枪、玩游戏、上网、玩异性朋友、吸毒、犯罪。衰败迹象可见一斑。很多用脑、吃苦的行业都有移民的功劳,否则,不会长久强大。
这两个国家如能相互取长补短,则人民幸盛,人类幸盛。 |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 16:18:43 |
|
|
笑眯眯:
是啊,不知道这笔帐怎么算呢。
北京土话:
就别再提杨振宁了!
路过:
同意你的观点。其实这不仅仅是教育的问题,而是整个社会体制的问题。因此要改 革就不仅仅是改革教育制度这一个方面了。 |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 16:14:06 |
|
|
点滴随想:
我很这人有什么说什么,向把反话当好话听,所以您的话我照单全收了。不管怎样,我并不认为美国的教育制度就是最好的,值得完全照搬,我只不过把我亲身体会的差别写出来让大家有一个讨论的机会而已。美国中学生的基础知识的确不如比中国(和很多其他国家如波兰),但不管你喜欢不喜欢,美国仍然在科技和其他方面在世界领先,这是一个事实. 有人说这是因为世界上其他国家的精英都跑到美国来发展,那为什么这些人不到中国和其他国家去呢?这后面的深层原因难道不值得思考吗? 您如果把我的文章断章取意,让您的孩子“不要学那么多”了,那是您的事,回头可别怪我, 呵呵。 |
|
|
|
作者:.昭君 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 16:05:40 |
|
|
Fito:
你说得当然很有道理,中国(以及整个东方)没有现代科学的基础和思辩传统,因此很 长时间以来只有“小聪明”或者“雕虫小技”,没有真正的科学发现。但经过一百 年来的与西方思维体系接轨,这方面中国已经有了长足的进步,尤其是在基础科学 方面。因此我认为这方面的差别不再是造成中国和美国科学技术方面差距的主要原 因。 |
|
|
|
作者:路过 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 14:30:05 |
|
|
中国教育“硬灌“,脱离实际,不敢触及社会问题,还有一个原因是社会体制专制。 他们乐于培养顺民,愚民,而不是有独立思考力的,了解人类发展一般规律的人民。 |
|
|
|
简单的道理,基本的事实。可惜杨振宁仍然认为中国的(高等) 教育优于美国。有网友戏称,他的新夫人就是中国的高等 院校培养出来的,他当然要夸中国的高等教育了! |
|
|
|
作者:点滴随想 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 12:54:08 |
|
|
噢,原来是这样。基础很差的人掌握着世界,怪不得这世界越来越糟糕。
回头叫我家孩子别学那么多了。
希望昭君朋友能把这文章的精神在美国广为传播。您要能在教育部有一席之地及强大影响力就好了。 |
|
|
|
作者:fito |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 12:50:42 |
|
|
Completely wrong! 科学和技术还是不如美国 has nothing to do with education. Chinese have never really know 科学和技术. 阿基米德浮力定理和曹冲称象,大智慧和小聪明的区别. This is is the reason. |
|
|
|
作者:笑眯眯 |
|
留言时间:2007-12-21 11:31:29 |
|
|
千言万语,不知从何说起。我觉得中国的孩子好可怜,没有真正的童年,从小就被剥夺玩乐的权利,可是辛辛苦苦,长大之后可能还没有别的国家的孩子有竞争力。不知道这笔亏本的生意,该由谁来负责 |
|
|
|
|