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作者：gsm0 |
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留言时间：2010-09-21 06:29:27 |
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楼主应该学些科学。
纵观历史你可以了解，没有一条自然规律是由人类发明的。
有悟性的科学家能用客观的方法（肯定不是想当然的人类自己创造）去揭示，揭示和应用这些规律。
比如牛顿发现的万有引力，瓦特发现的蒸汽机，爱因斯坦的相对论。
不管他们是否发现，这些精密的自然规律客观存在着。
神奇否？为什么人类连一张桌子都得设计和制造，
而大自然和宇宙却可以离开设计而精密运作着？
可能么？
有脑袋有思维的必然会思考而不是让别人喂你现存的弱智答案。
进化论彻头彻尾就是臆想。无法证实的想当然说法。 |
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作者：伊萍 |
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留言时间：2010-02-23 17:10:53 |
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这个博客和各位的评论很值得一读，confirm some of my believes。1111的体验，我也有过类似，可能不如他（她）那么dramatic，但这种message just came to me的体验是一模一样 |
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作者：一粒 |
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留言时间：2010-02-14 20:12:51 |
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也许这两本书可以有助于你的探索..
可以看林语堂的信仰之旅
“文化基督徒”评论--从林语堂谈起
http://www.godoor.net/text/shenxue/hysx12.htm
也可以看"铁证待判"一书.
http://www.jonahome.net/files/tzdp/content.htm |
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作者：sichuan08 |
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留言时间：2009-10-31 16:04:28 |
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科学是发现，解释和应用宇宙中现有的规律，而没法创造出任何新规律。
人类也许永远无法解释万物的起源。 |
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作者：昭君 |
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留言时间：2007-10-16 08:16:59 |
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谢谢各位分享心得。“Science without religion is Lame, Religion without science is blind”， 爱因斯坦说得太好了！其实我之所以想探讨这个问题，就是不愿意“blindly follow any faith”。但Philaharmonic 的观点对我也有些启发，也许信上帝只是为了个人内心的平和，而不是为了找寻困扰我们的各种问题的答案。这样说来，科学家也可以是虔诚的基督徒，或者别的信仰的跟从者，而这两者并不一定是互相冲突的。Maybe I think too much! |
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作者：注册法官 |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 21:07:29 |
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时代周刊封面曾登过爱因斯坦的一句名言:
Science Without Religion Is Lame: Religion Without Science Is Blind.
爱因斯坦用婉转的方式表达了他对科学与宗教的认识. 也许,人类500年以后可以理解这句话的深刻含义, 至少目前,宗教界和科学界都在回避探讨这句话的深刻含义.
如果把对宗教认识的过程分为4个阶段, 爱因斯坦已经进入第四阶段, 用科学哲学的宇宙观解释科学和宗教的关系. |
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作者：unity |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 20:16:12 |
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I think to the contrary, the whole universe originated from an inteligent high source that we call as GOD, and since science, nature or any living or non-living creature are all parts or components of the universe, just like there are many parts to constitute a human body, I don't see any separation between science and nature or science and faith.
In our human's persue of knowledge, we separate the subject into religion, philosophy, arts, literature, science, medicine, ect., but there are just different ways to get to know or understand the higher scource, there are different only in their approach and angle, not in any way contradict one another.
Science is part of GOD, because GOD is of the highest high of inteligience, and our science is our hardest try to understand that, no matter how naive it must be. We can only feel very humble, as it is true that, we never invented any rules.
I think we chinese know about GOD thousands of years ago too, we have our books from GOD in "LAO ZI", "ZHUANG ZI', "YI JING" and others, in "LAO ZI", it explains in many places how everything came to places, the characteristics of the origin, ect., in "ZHUANG ZI", it tried to explicit by many stories how to view death, that death is not the ending, it's merely going back to it's origin, to a different exiting state, which I think it's kind of indirectly proofed by a lot of Near Death Experiences. And "QI" seems to play a vital part, as kind of an invisible form of energy that make the mind and body function. we tend to take a lot of concept by granted, like time, space, especialy the concept of "me", but they are all quite mysterious, and lots of other things too. |
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I believe that the higher force or the great being out there is merely the nature itself, or the universe itself. The universe here is the entire dynamic system from the very past to the future, not a snap shot in any given time. Any attempt to unify science and religen is waste of time because the view point is entirely different between these two subject. A person can be a great scientist and also a loyal believer of GOD. To me god may take care ones' internal mind while science is trying to figure out how the world turns out to be the way it is. Science is more useful to help make things happen while religen help one to find peace in mind. |
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作者：昭君 |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 10:00:07 |
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Thank you 111, Aloud, and 555 for your enlightening thoughts! I do believe that there's a higher force out there, whether it's a peronal God, or it's some "mysterious being" as Einstein seems to suggest, there has to be some higher power behind this marvelous structure of the universe and life. And 555 said it really well, what to believe is a personal thing, and what those famous people believe or not believe does not alter what each of us should choose for ourselves. That said, I also appreciate what Aloud shared here because it is comforting to know that even our time's brightest thinker wonders about what religiousness really is for him. |
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作者：555 |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 09:25:11 |
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It's interesting to know what's Einstein's or any other famous people or scientist's view on faith, but so what? either they have faith or not, their view may make people think twice for a moment, but I doubt it will have any true impact on people, otherwise, since there have been countless enlighten people throughout history from east to west, even countless books on this, why lot people are still in the dark?
so i think to find the way or the truth is a very personal thing, that's why we are each to be put here to live a life, through everyone's very personal and unique experience, we will find it, of course, the condition is that you wanted searching in the first place. Even if Einstein told you supposely,that he think there's a GOD, would you believe him just because he's Einstein or Newton or whoever? Keep on searching, the answer will be given. |
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作者：acloud |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 09:12:53 |
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quotations of Einstein from wikiquote:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein.
: ). I hope I'm not too aloud. I usually like to speak with calm and low voice. |
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作者：acloud |
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留言时间：2007-10-15 08:38:53 |
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Einstein said:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
( Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman (eds) (1981). Albert Einstein, The Human Side. Princeton University Press, 43. )
"Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our mind cannot grasp and whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all that is there. "
( Denis Brian, Einstein, A Life, New York, 1996, p.234)
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all being."
( Denis Brian, Einstein, A Life, New York, 1996, p.127)
" I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contributions to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and the body as one, not two separate things. "
Denis Brian, Einstein, A Life, New York, 1996, p.186)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
on Einstein's religious views
The question of scientific determinism gave rise to questions about Einstein's position on theological determinism, and even whether or not he believed in God. In 1929, Einstein told Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
In 1950, in a letter to M. Berkowitz, Einstein stated that "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."
Einstein defined his religious views in a letter he wrote in response to those who claimed that he worshipped a Judeo-Christian god: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
By his own definition, Einstein was a deeply religious person: "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms--it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
He published a paper in Nature in 1940 entitled Science and Religion which gave his views on the subject. In this he says that: "a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value ... regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation ... In this sense religion is the age-old endeavour of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals, and constantly to strengthen their effects." He argues that conflicts between science and religion "have all sprung from fatal errors." However "even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other" there are "strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies" ... "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind ... a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist." However he makes it clear that he does not believe in a personal God, and suggests that "neither the rule of human nor Divine Will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted ... by science, for [it] can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot." (Einstein 1940, pp. 605–607)
......
The most thorough exploration of Einstein's views on religion was made by his friend Max Jammer in the 1999 book Einstein and Religion.
...... |
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作者：1111 |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 21:21:45 |
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A little bit of my experiences:
Same background as yours, doubter for many years.
Wondered where I came from when I was 6, searched about life since I was 12, after searching for many years, still very lost, deeply lost.
Then came the turning point after more than 20 years of searching and lost, satrted about 4 years ago, a series of "out-of-this-world " things happened to me:
Out of desperation, 4 years ago towards new year's day, I sincerely prayed with the image of Virgin Mary holding Jesus in my mind when I had no way out in life, almost right afterwards, help came to me in the form I needed (i will not go into the details), in a word, I was given a second life, my prayer got answered miraculously. Of course, at that time I didn't know that that's just the beginning of something.
Also around that time, there were two very sudden death (people i knew of and just talked to not long before) in a short period of time around me, which drove me into a deep fear about the concept of death, while lying in bed one evening with this fear in mind, I suddenly got this message, It is "YOU ARE ALWAYS PART OF IT", it came to me through telepathy, and I was made to understood it instantly, also about the meaning of "IT" which means "THE UNIVERSE", of course, from that point on and years later, I have a completely new view about death, and life too, and I knew from my heart, that this message is not self-created for comforting, as like the other events, they made sense in context of my life--they did't happen to me out of blue.
A few monthes afterwards, sometime in the following spring, could be April, one day while I was in the bathroom! all of a sudden, this powerful message came to me, it's something came to my mind directly,instantly so i can only call it telepathy again like the time before, the message is "HUMAN ARE DIFFERENT FROM ANIMALS IN THAT HUMAN KNOWS LOVE", you may not totally agree with this, saying that some animals also knows abot love, but this is what I got, and it emphasized about "love", and it's the most touching, powerful experience in my life, and somehow I knew this is from the higher above, later i realized that we chinese also know about it as Dao instead of GOD, or rather we can't really name it--how to name for something not belong to this world and much above this world?!
Around or since that time, I believe I also experienced other non-worldly experiences that i'll keep to myself here, anyway, the existence of a source for everything is no doubt for me, it's as real as air or water.
What about suffering? God has all the power to stop the human sufferings or anything, but why not? here's what i think, we are given the free will and not made as robot, with the free will, we tend to think that we can do anything we want to and that we are above everything, but if it's not the correct way we'll suffer, then we'll do some soul searching and correct ourselves, until we are perfect enough to not need to be born again into this world to suffer anymore. As for heaven or hell, I don't believe there are really places like heaven or hell, i think there are just certain type of existing state, you could have heaven or hell right here on earth, depend on how peaceful you are inside.
to me, here are the 3 relationships to figure out in life:
human and it's creator
human and human
human and material thing
each seems simple, each is difficult.
to me each religion is just a different path, all lead to the same goal. and what's the importance of formality, what all matter is what we say, how we act, especially how we think.
i wrote too much! |
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作者：昭君 |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 20:12:12 |
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Aloud:
I'm not very familiar with this (Einstein's supposedly turning to God in the end of his life), but I have heard of this kind of stories about him. Do you know about what really happened? If so, please enlighten me.
Thanks. |
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作者：aloud |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 19:05:35 |
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"他认为，人类对科学了解越多，越可能对这种超自然的神秘力量感到敬畏，这也是为什么很多大科学家到最后成了信仰上帝的原因(如爱因斯坦)。"
昭君, this is not real. |
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作者：YH |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 13:43:24 |
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Zhao Jun,
Don't worry about that at all! I have the same intention when I sent my daughter to the church. Most of the time my friend who lives in the same community will take my daughter there if she has not a lot of homework at weekend. Because she can get a chance to talk to her friends there, and listening to the other young people talking about their experiences in helping the homeless.It is very important for her to develop her beliefs when she grows up, especially she is the only child in our family. From my perspective, it is much better if she can have some religion. Unfortunately, we were educated so many years that there is no God and it is very difficult for us to accept it completely. My daughter is the same age as your old son. |
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作者：.昭君 |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 10:51:47 |
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YH:
Thanks for the comment. That's is another thing about Christianity that I'm not sure about - the fact that you can have only one god, and follow Him only. The pastor actually had a session last Sunday criticising the "buffet" approach of religious belief, i.e., picking a bit from here and bit from there and call oneself a "spiritual but not religious person". I don't know, I think that is a bit too restrictive.
How did your daughter become a complete believer when you are not? I went to church partly because of the children, since I think robbing them the opportunity to be exposed to this whole religious system is unfair, especially since they'll be interact with people who have these backgrounds in their lives. But I was a little worried when my young boy absorbs the ideas so easily and quickly. Am I a hypocritic? |
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作者：YH |
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留言时间：2007-10-14 08:25:50 |
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Agree with you. I believe in God but respect all the other religions. Therefore, I was criticized by christians as a multi-Gods believer. I have a lot of friends who are christians. Once I asked one of my best friends:"If my daughter becomes a christian (my daughter totally believes in God), can she take me and my husband to the heaven after we die?" "No, you guys are too heavy for her". She joked. "Oh, so she will watch me and my honey be boiled in the hell and she enjoys herself in the heaven?" "Maybe". The only thing I cannot understand about God is since he or she is capable of everything, why he or she cannot prevent all the tragidies happen and hurt all the good people, like 911, like all the wars. |
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